14-year old performs Carnival of Venice

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by TrumpetChris334, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. TrumpetChris334

    TrumpetChris334 New Friend

    May 31, 2011
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio

    You have the notes down well, now I would recommend polishing on the technique. In the first section, I recommend not chopping your final note of a phrase off too abruptly. In the sections were you have more flowing runs, the flow would work better if you tried to breathe through the phrasing. See if you can take a breath in more natural spaces. Overall, I think you are off to a GREAT start and for ONLY practicing this for a few days AND from memory.
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    The most important part of music is the flow of the melody. Is there any tempo that you can keep steady from the beginning to the end? I didn't hear much of anything resembling a beat. Once we have trained sloppily, it is MUCH tougher to clean things up because we have some pretty bad habits.

    My advice is to STOP MESSING AROUND. Take that piece nice and slow and get the fingers, tounguing and rhythm nice and steady, then build up speed to make it impressive.

    Here is a very young player (11 or 12) that has focussed their energy into playing incredibly well:

    DungeyMusic.com - Natalie Dungey's Page


    You can do this too - if you focus!
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
  4. MVF

    MVF Pianissimo User

    Sep 10, 2010
    I don't understand why you would post a piece (and ask for comments) after so little practice? Wouldn't it make more sense to get to where you play the piece as well as you can, and then ask for criticism so you can get better? I'd bet if you got it down that well in so little time, you could have played it much better with a bit more work, so maybe ask yourself what you're really after.

    I don't mean to be harsh, but I think the answer to that question could be important to you in life as well as trumpet playing.

    You did ask for comments!
  5. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    As I sit here listening to this I have two thoughts that immediately come to mind:

    1.) Invest in a metronome and use it

    2.) Walk before you run - there are good thing I heard there, but right now it sounded to me like you were struggling a bit with that piece of music, simply because your fundamentals aren't quite yet ready for it.

    The good news is that you are pushing yourself and really trying - having that kind of motivation and drive with a willingness to put yourself out there, whether the feedback you get is good or bad, is often the difference between success and failure.

    I'm listening to a couple of other youtube clips you have posted - not bad. Just keep after it, keep working hard, and really start to focus in on what's actually coming out of your bell.

    Do you have any other recording gear or a means to record yourself with a bit higher quality? Recording is a great tool for assessment and improvement because you get immediate feedback of what you are actually playing rather than what you think you are playing. A lot of the time a player who is less aware won't notice fine details such as scuffed notes, minor intonation/support issues (lack of proper breath support results in a sagging sound) timing and phrasing issues and that kind of thing. Recording gives you immediate feedback and makes you aware of what needs improvement, and it sharpens up your focus and awareness while you are recording takes. (I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably recorded the Carnival of Venice bit several times before you got a take you were happy with, right?)

    Keep after it Chris, and never lose your willingness to put it out there!
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    I have a little different perspective on giving feedback. I think what Chris did was a bold move. Feedback is good to get after the first day, just as much as after the first week which is the traditional interval we use as trumpet teachers. I also see the advice of Rowuk as start changing bad habits before they become incorporated into the routine is valuable advice. I believe this is what Chris is doing. He is receiving absolutely the best feedback possible for all of the above posters. Chris, you will learn and improve with this advice.

    As for life learning goals, getting immediate feedback is the best way to learn. We have revolutionalized this concept at the medical school in which I serve as a professor. We have found the by giving ongoing immediate feedback in Team based evaluations, our medical students have increased their standardized performance by a whole grade point. So Chris, yes, your post is on the cutting edge of feedback, and to use this best to your advantage is to act on all of the above advice.
  7. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

    May 7, 2011
    I agree...
    +1 for having the stones to post a video of you playing a famous and difficult piece.
    +2 for then posting it in a trumpet forum and soliciting feedback.

    +10 if you can accept the constructive advice and let the negative thing roll off your back.

    I think there are some stages in a trumpet players life... You have to do each one in order before you should move on.
    Stage 1 is learning completely basic fundamentals. How to hold the horn, produce a tone, learn fingerings etc...
    Stage 2 is becoming competent in the technical aspects of making the horn do what you want it to do when you want it to happen. Scales, Articulation, flexibilities
    Stage 3 is beginning to learn repetoire: etudes, solos, concertos, etc.
    Stage 4 is complete & utter mastery of the technical aspects & repetoire... you really know the horn and sound great. You can play just about anything
    Stage 5 is using the horn as a means of communication and expression without giving any thought at all to technical things.
    Stage 6 is using that expressionistic capability to create something new. You stop regurgitating what everyone else has already played ad nasueum (I call it the "me too! syndrome) and start using the trumpet to make music where there wasn't any before. It comes from your soul.

    Now, regarding your video...

    The thing with public school music education that I hate is that after some basic introduction (beginner band) they ignore your instrument fundamental training and leave that up to you to figure out. The focus is on teaching you the marching band show, or the tunes for whatever concert or contest that is coming up. So students get stuck in level 1 or 2 technically and then start playing literature that they are not technically prepared for.

    Go hang out in the warm up room at a 9th grade solo & ensemble contest... you will hear what I am talking about.

    Students stuck in this kind of playing have no sense of time because they do not practice correctly.... slow and with a metronome. They are in a rush to play the tune rather than play it well. They blurp intervals across partials. Their articulations sound like they have been stung by a bee on the tounge. They spleeah attacks. They have a nasal tone with no air support. They do not support long notes with air to the end of a phrase. Oh yeah... phrasing... fugheddaboudit! Dynamic contrast is completely absent.

    In my opinion... I wish music students spent more time learning how to play the trumpet before they jump in and start puking out "me too!" literature that they are not prepared for.

    So, I guess my advice to you would be to go back to Arban... but pages 13-56 instead of 339-343. Always use a metronome. Practice the exercises as slow as it takes for you to play it perfectly. Then move the metronome up a click and do it 10 more times. If you flub, the count starts over. If you flub again the metronome goes backwards! You don't want to go fast because all you are doing is memorizing your mistakes. Learn to identify what is giving you trouble and then go find an exercise that focuses on that (maybe in Clark, Irons, Colin).

    An example of this: When I was in college I was assigned my teacher, Don Jacoby, to come back next week and play Arban Characteristic Etude #3. Uh Oh... I'm a lead player. I do shakes on High-G's... not so good at Arban Characteristic stuff... So I sucked at it for sure, but what Jake said really stuck with me. It wasn't that I sucked, it was WHY I sucked. He focused in on my fundamentals. Specifically in this piece, the repeated 1/16th note arpeggios from low C to on top of the staff G in measure 15. He stopped me there and says: "Play a G (on top of staff).... now a Low-C... now play a G, then when I move my hand go to the lowC" He did it faster and faster and I was seriously folding and flubbing. It was embarassing. So he stops me and says "Forget about this for now. For next time bring me page 125-127... in quarter notes...SLOW. Now get the hell outta here you <chicken flavored lollipop>. That lesson was 10 minutes long. Shoulda been an hour. I left in shame... and had to do the perp walk back through the living room where all the other students were (there was always a bunch of students hanging at Jakes)...

    If you can't play the exercises 11-15 on page 13-14 correct and musically then what business do you have on page 339? Did you notice that there are also accents and dynamic markings in those exercises?

    Don't take what I say in a bad way. I respect the dedication you demonstrate by posting videos. I am sure you want to improve, so I hope you will go back and start practicing Clarke Technical Studies, Irons 27 Exercises, Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities, Arban, and some lyrical exercises (LaCour, Concone, Charlier).

    Start making music instead of pounding out notes.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  8. dan42guy

    dan42guy New Friend

    May 6, 2010
    Fort Worth, TX
    When I was your age, I did the same thing and it almost ruined me. It would have been much better for me if I had practiced fundamentals with a metronome, but I didn't have anybody tell me that until I was in college. It took years (all through college and a couple years after) before I kicked the bad habits I formed. It would have been so much better if I'd done it right the first time.

    1. Practice fundamentals. Clarke, scales, and arpeggios.
    2. Practice them with a metronome.
    3. Listen to recordings of great trumpet players and emulate them.
    4. A good sound means you're doing it right!

    Good luck! You've got a lot of potential.
  9. operagost

    operagost Forte User

    Jan 25, 2009
    Spring City, PA, USA
    These pages are ready to fall out of my copy. Playing through them all perfectly in one sitting is on my bucket list.
  10. richtom

    richtom Forte User

    Dec 7, 2003
    You need to post your youtube exploits less and listen to the great players on youtube. Listen to Herseth, James, Mendez, Severinsen, Smith, Dokshitzer, Balsom, Armstrong, and Vacchiano to name just a few and listen to their exquisite musicianship. Whether jazz, classical, big band, or other genres, the real players are on that site to listen to and learn from.
    As others have so kindly stated, you need considerable work on your timing and musicality. You remind me of me at your age - hacking my way through Mendez solos and not really accomplishing anything except for the 7 or 8 bars I could actually play right.
    Great playing on ANY instrument is based on a rock solid foundation of fundamentals. You need to build the foundation.
    You have been given excellent advice here. Follow it.
    Rich T.

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