1st and 3rd slides during technical studies

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jdostie, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    OK, this could be a can of worms, and I probably should ask my teacher about this, but my next lesson isn't until next Thursday . . .

    Do you, or more to the point should I, use the 1st and 3rd valve slides to bring things in tune during Clarke's Technical Studies? The reason I ask is:
    1) My previous teacher had indicated that we really don't worry about that on short notes. Now that could have meant (for now), or it could have been more generalized to indicate that it's not practical if you are moving quickly as we are intended to do in the technical studies.
    2) Playing through the studies, I have noticed, in particular that C# (below the staff) is way off, other notes (D) may be as well, but the C# stands out. It's really started to grate on me, so last night I just "kicked out" the 3rd valve slide for everything below the staff - which seemed to work, although I did not check with a tuner.
    3) It seems like the approach above might be applicable, but that to adjust the slide for every note in something fast like the technical studies (Might) be impractical, but . . .
    4) The flip side of that is that isn't the purpose of doing the technical studies to build up such skills, and to learn to make these movements/adjustments, and coordinate all that with our air etc,.? In which case, what's the right approach for fast passages through a series of notes that tend to be out of tune?
    5) I could "lip it" into tune, but I lack the control to do that - certainly at any kind of speed, so that seems like that would not be appropriate either. . .

    I know it might sound like a silly question, but in truth I never even used the slides as a kid, so never learned to use them (except to tune Ab on a soprano bugle, but that's a slightly different beast).
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    You ALWAYS have to play in tune. There is NEVER an excuse for not being in tune. That means that you use the slides when you can and when it doesn't work due to speed or convenience, then your chops must compensate.

    Sometimes in keys like Db it is useful to pull only a little and lip the Db a little down and the Eb a bit up. About 15 years ago, I started to use the first valve slide more than the third. Don't ask me why, I didn't plan it or read about it anywhere, I just started doing it and it is still that way today!
     
  3. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    That's what I thought. It's just something else I have to work on.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2009
  4. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    Oops, I forgot to ask about leaving the slide out while during those runs below the staff; is that advisable? Is this just something I should work out with my tuner to see what works?
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The only thing that counts are the RESULTS. When the horn is closer to correct intonation it is more resonant. Experience needs to be your guide. Habits are built on hundreds and thousands of repetitions. Repeat after me............
     
  6. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    OK, thanks. I get it.
     
  7. larry tscharner

    larry tscharner Forte User

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    wow.. Great question! I just learned a lot too. I also use the 1st slide instead of the 3rd and have wondered if there is any reason not to. My guess is that many vintage instruments didnt have a trigger or thumb saddle so everyone was just told to use the 3rd. I have found its just easier for me. I use it for D but I guess I never noticed my C# is probably sharp too. I'l try this out when I practice next time with a tuner. It seems to me that a pro once told me only to throw a slide out for the D and not for Eb or C#. Great advice!!
     
  8. BORTrumpetMom

    BORTrumpetMom New Friend

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    Jul 3, 2010
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    I learn so much just from reading the other posts! I haven't had as much time lately with school starting and band camp/chauffeur duty in full swing. Thanks for the question and explanation of the role the tuning slides play in hitting correct notes.

    I have a question that may be off topic. The TR300 has been gone to band camp with the eldest son. The other trumpet that I experiment with learning to play on is an old Mercury (1940) with a permanently stuck main tuning slide (the slide was stuck and the Bb to A mechanism were already missing when the previous owner acquired it some years ago, but since we were more interested in the history than in a specific regular use for it, we didn't mind. Our trusted tech repaired some loose connections and confirmed that it couldn't be moved without forcing and probably damaging it--there are tool marks where someone evidently tried many years ago). It has a really nice tone when the trumpet sons play it, but neither one will be using it in a group. How much of an impediment will that be for playing on my own--assuming I get to that point? My playing audience is generally restricted to one teenager and the dog.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  9. keehun

    keehun Piano User

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    Feb 4, 2010
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    I noticed in my trumpet section that everyone pulls the main tuning slide out way too far out. That causes them to lip everything up (Ah!! Almost all of them had the same trumpet teacher in middle school that didn't look out for that). So lipping everything up to correct pitch tends to make the sound more strained. Way strained, actually since they have to be so tense to get it in tune. (I tried to kind of nudge them back to "normal" but it hasn't worked. Some beat up trumpets, I noticed have to be out that far to be in tune. I played it with how far they pulled it out and it was in tune without me looking at the tuner).

    Anyway, since yours is stuck without it being out, you'll probably have to "lip down" a little bit to get it in tune to where the metronome is. I'm not sure what physiological implications it has but just from a naive (maybe logical?) stand point, it'll probably get you to relax a bit.

    The stuck slide shouldn't barr you from getting far with the trumpet! Now, if you're playing in a section, or plan on playing in a section, maybe not so rosy (unless you lip everything down?)
     
  10. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    If your tuning slide is stuck a little way out, 3/8" or so, the instrument will be pretty much in tune, if all the way in it will be sharp, the disadvantage will be that your ear will be accustomed to the pitch which may be a problem with playing with others.

    I received a 1947 Selmer Grand Prix trumpet during the week with a stuck tuning slide about 3/8" out, played it in Big Band thursday night and it was fine.

    Regards, Stuart
     

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