6th space C (3rd valve down)?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by kingtrumpet, May 2, 2011.

  1. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    just a question for some high note advocates. I was reading an article (If I recall on trumpet herald) that claimed you can boost the response of the Bb trumpet to get a few "easier" notes like a G bugle that used to be used in Drum Corps. Simply you had to put the 3rd valve down and the 6th space C would be as easy to get as the 5th space A. (of course you have to compensate with the 3rd valve slide -to get it in tune)
    I haven't tried it yet - but I came across this youtube vid that seems to indicate that people actually do this.

    YouTube - Blue Devils 05 - Scott Dean solo - Gent, Belgium
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  2. craigph

    craigph Piano User

    Mar 12, 2010
    I'm confused - what do you mean by 6th space C and 5th space A? (There isn't a C or A where I am thinking of 6th and 5th space.)
  3. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

    Oct 22, 2008
    Ditto. I'm also confused about using the third valve as an aternative fingering for a C.
  4. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    I think you may be mixing two different things.

    If you hold down the 3rd valve on a Bb trumpet it puts the horn roughly in the key of G, so you would be able to easily read the charts written for G bugle. It won't do a thing to "increase range". A written Double C for G bugle is equivalent to an A above high C on a Bb trumpet.

    From G above high C and above you can use alternate fingerings to help with slotting. You can see guys like Wayne Bergeron, Roger Ingram, the kid in the video above, etc., use the 3rd valve when they have to pop a sustained high note. I've seen lots of guys use it for high G, but not usually for double C.
  5. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    sorry for the confusion - the double high C (6th space C, above the staff), and the high A below that (5th space S, above the staff) - I am talking about high range.
  6. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    Yes - I can't seem to find the article again - either, to reference that. but your first is part of it -- getting roughly to the key of G.

    and Second - I tried this last night - and the C wasn't any easier with the 3rd valve down -- HOWEVER, it did seem louder, and not nearly as thin a sound as having the horn - in the open position.

    thirdly - I think with the 3rd valve - I'm really playing a Double C sharp (similiar to 1 and 2nd valve) - and lowering the note to a Double C with the 3rd valve slide.
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I think in the "double" octave, you do what you have to do. Keeping the fingerings from an octave lower help to keep a point of reference. I am not aware of the necessity to use the 3rd valve for anything except Ab up there
  8. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    Once you get above the G above high C, you can play a chromatic scale without touching any valves. I like using the same fingerings as an octave below,the notes seem to slot better for me,plus it's easier for me to keep my place in the chart.

    Now some players find certain notes slot better for them when they use certain alternate fingerings. Which fingering varies from player to player.Sometimes the same player will us alternates from one horn to another, depending on gap between the mouthpiece receiver and the end of the mouthpiece shank.

    So do I think it helps? Maybe.
    Do I think you have to do it? No.
  9. Danbassin

    Danbassin Pianissimo User

    Aug 27, 2006
    Buffalo, New York
    Just for reference, in this video the player goes to the 3rd valve to play a B-natural, right below 'double C'. This would be written on the fifth ledger line above treble staff, for Bb trumpet.

    I never did the whole drum and bugle corps thing, so I can't really speak to the ease of high register on the G bugle. What the player in the video is doing on his Bb trumpet is playing the 18th harmonic of the 3rd valve - the "B" above the "A" which is the fundamental of that valve. Perhaps the player found that this fingering aided him in hitting that pitch more easily than using the conventional 2nd valve for that pitch - the longer valve slide might've added some resistance he felt helped 'pushing against' in order to hit the pitch. If you look at his body usage, he's certainly employing some tension to achieve this pitch, so I think that explanation makes sense. If you simply listen, it sounds exciting, and I wish I had as electrifying sounding 'double B'.
  10. Dave Hughes

    Dave Hughes Mezzo Forte User

    Oct 19, 2010
    Rochester, NY
    I tried out that 3rd valve fingering for a Double B today- I be damned if it didn't lock the slot a little better! :thumbsup::dontknow:

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