6th space C (3rd valve down)?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by kingtrumpet, May 2, 2011.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Was that the slot that most of us fall into before getting there? Or did you finally lock the slot closed?
     
  2. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    thank you for the explanation -- I thought it was the double C because of the fingering being 3rd valve down, and what I had read in whatever article I can't find now.
    But a solid Double B is pretty cool also. sometimes (because of my hearing) - I really can't tell the difference in some notes without progressing up the scale or doing octave leaps or arpeggios
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    cool - it's things like this that will help. I couldn't get the note to slot well - but like Al said above - you don't need fingerings to do a chromatic scale up there. So I was aiming for the Double C "sound", which came out louder and clearer than when in the open position.

    I will have to try that again with the B natural sound in "mind" tonight.
     
  4. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    Anyways - I came across these 2 guys from way back -- and the HUGE sound lured me to look into 2 valve G bugles (not that a G bugle is a substitute for practice, and working hard) -- BUT it intrigued me just the same. So the G bugle inspired this thread, and was what prompted my question in the first place.
    I hope people enjoy this clip

    YouTube - 1977 Kilties drum and bugle corps solo
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
  5. Adrian Perger

    Adrian Perger New Friend

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    Yeah, but from double C to double E is the valveless chromatic scale, hiG to C is not in tune, because it includes the octave of that flat Bb below high C. But different horns must have their discrepencies, and alternate fingerings that are more in tune than the normal ones. I learnt this on a French Horn, they regularly play up there, (their 16th harmonic [their high c] is the same note as our 6th harmonic [g on the staff]) !
    Look up on wikipedia "Harmonic Series (music)", there's a really interesting chart of the notes in the harmonic series and how out of tune each one is right up to double E!
     
  6. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

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    That "B" didn't sound nearly as big as his lower notes in the E to F# range.
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    That is why they build double and triple horns - to make the upper register more manageable. Real trumpeters have earned what they need and develop techniques to deal with the rest. Perhaps this guy wanted to play an A below double C and overshot - missed it. Then this whole discussion would be based on fantasy instead of reality.

    The intonation of every brass instrument is different based on its construction and the mouthpiece and player used. "Charts" are only valid for the specific test set up used. To examine the effects of the mouthpiece alone, check this out:
    Examination of the Influence of Different Mouthpiece Forms on the Resonance Behavior of Trumpets

    We can't disregard air density, temperature, bell shape, proportion of cylindrical to conical tubing, or even amount of dirt in an uncleaned instrument.

    for trumpet simulation, this will help a bit:
    Simulation of Brass Instruments


    Here some additional writings by Renold Schilke - manufacturer of some of the most "in-tune" instruments on the planet:
    Leader Pipe and Its Function

    Schilke Brass Clinic

    Here some further research by one of the most brilliant brass minds alive today:

    Library - Articles and Reviews

    There are technical papers available here to those who register
     
  8. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Is there a seperate reference book for that "Simulation of Brass Trumpets"? Sort of like the books that help you through Arbans. I mean, seriously, it looks like NASA physics calculations .... We're not sending a trumpet to the moon.:dontknow:

    More evidence that it's futile to second guess the designers. It would be like a bunch of amateurs second guessing NASA.

    "Don't you think they should use a higher octane rocket fuel? I mean, come on Fred, that's a long way to the moon .... Don't want it pinging.":-P

    "No kidding, Elmo. And get a load of those fins .... You call that aerodynamic?"

    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  9. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    Exactly! The fact is once above G on top of the staff, you do not need any fingerings. And this has been born out more than a few times when playing a high C and accidentally hitting a D, or Eb instead. But I guess that can be expected from a first year student..........
     
  10. Adrian Perger

    Adrian Perger New Friend

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    I just find it interesting, cos I've got a bit of a scientific mind. I'm the first one to not give a damn about gear, my main trumpet was a Bach 72 that I'd worn 2 holes in while overseas, and I just put wet tissue paper over them and kept living off that trumpet for another two years. I still am thinking maybe I'll go back to it. I've cut up my first trumpet to make a c trumpet and did a whole Latin tour around oz and got complemented on my sound.

    I also think that the brass instrument that really suits me is yet to be invented. Why not? It's just good to know what designers are doing and what the science is behind something that you put your life to.

    Cheers Rowuk for all those links!!!
     

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