A Heavy Horn

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BrotherBACH, May 5, 2011.

  1. BrotherBACH

    BrotherBACH Piano User

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    My 1973 Bach Strad #37 needed a new spring on my tuning slide spit valve, so I took it into the shop and I am using a rental. The rental is a brand new Bach Stad #37. It is laqured and my current on is a simple silver finish. No laqure. The rental horn is one very heavy beast compared to what I am currently using.

    Three things I have noticed. First, when I go below the stave (G or F#) the resonance is so profound that it is transferred to my head, straight to my inner ear and it down right tickles. This has happened two days in a row. However, it seems to be much harder for me to get the pedals to speak as loud as my current horn. Third, there is a stability or forcefulness to the notes as I climb above the stave. It is hard to explain but I really love it! The other weird thing is that there is lots of spit to come out of the tuning slide spit valve and very little out of the third valve dump. In contrast, on my current horn, it is more equally distributed between the spit valve and third valve dump.

    Are these things general properties of heavy horns?

    BrotherBACH
     
  2. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    I am not sure if this is a truly relevant comment, but when trying out some new Strads (37s and 72s) at the end of 2010 I was surprised at how good they were compared to my recollection of trying some new ones from about 2007/08. It could be that they improved something in the last couple of years after all. I rejected the 37 I tried a few years ago in favour of a 43G, but that would not have been as clear a decision in December last.

    If you're in to trying new Bach horns you could try the Artisan - I really liked that too.

    --bumblebee
     
  3. Octiceps

    Octiceps Pianissimo User

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    I don't know if those things are general characteristics of heavy horns, or just idiosyncrasies of the particular horn you are playing. You may need to play some other heavy horns such Taylor, Harrelson, or Monette to see if there is a pattern.

    I don't like how heavy horns play in general. To me, they generally respond sluggishly, give little feedback, and sound dull and lifeless. Consequently, some of the favorite horns that I've played, like the Yamaha 8310z and the Schilke B series, have all been lighter in weight.
     
  4. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    Did you happen to notice if your older horn had a star on the bell .. that indicates lightweight ... ( I hope that really means the actual weight of the horn).
    I played an Artisan a few weeks ago .. wow pretty impressive. Just a randm thought, you might consider getting your horn ultrasonically cleaned being that it is 45 years old.
     
  5. Octiceps

    Octiceps Pianissimo User

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    I often hear that the newer Bachs are heavier than the Mt. Vernon and early Elkhart ones. I played some Mt. Vernons and early Elkharts a year ago but don't recall them exceptionally light in any way. Plus, these horns all had the two-piece brass/nickel silver valve casings.

    If anything, shouldn't these newer Bachs be lighter since Bach uses one-piece brass valve casings now? Or did Bach also do some other things in recent decades that increased horn weight? Maybe someone knowledgeable about Bach can chime in.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think that it is a function of weight. The "resonance" that we experience as players is a combination of many things: how well we hear ourselves, the efficiency of the horn/mouthpiece/player system, the response of the room and generally how good we feel on a particular day. Dave Monette has learned how to get that resonant behaviour into lighter instruments as his new high end Bb shows.

    I don't know what heavy horns Oticeps has played. The Monettes, Taylors and Harrelsons that I have played and and Monette that I own, do not demonstrate this behaviour of sluggish or lifelessness. Pimped horns that were not designed heavy but have some heavy parts can have very uneven response.
     
  7. Octiceps

    Octiceps Pianissimo User

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    Admittedly, I haven't played too many heavier horns. I've gone through some Yamaha Xenos, a Schilke S32HD, and a Kanstul 1500-A with the weighted tuning slide and heavy bottom caps. My opinion was gleaned from my experience with those horns. That opinion may very well change if I ever get the chance to try out some higher-end stuff from Taylor, Monette, or Harrelson in the future.
     
  8. PakWaan

    PakWaan Piano User

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    My Taylor is hardly sluggish or lifeless. Indeed, it's the finest horn I've ever played, and I currently own some great players....
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I often have posted on "pimped" horns. Addind weight to the tuning slide and valve caps does NOT create a heavy horn. It merely adds weight to horns that were not DESIGNED heavy. I tried heavy caps on my Bach C and compared the results to the Monette. The caps came off immediately. I recently took a heavy cap off of my Monette and put it on the 3rd valve of my Getzen 4 valved flugel. The results warrant more testing.

    I think the real issue is always having a practical frame of reference. Perhaps a heavy horn that has earned the name?
     
  10. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    I'm surprised that it threaded on. I thought Monette used a pipe type thread that's different each time.
     

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