A totally beginner looking for help and advice

Discussion in 'Horns' started by Mordian, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. Mordian

    Mordian New Friend

    Nov 11, 2016
    Post pour Trumpet master

    Hello everyone,

    I've written a lot of text, so if youwant to skip th long part talking about me and go directly helping meyou can go at the end of my post where I've summed up my questionsand information (like my budget).

    I'll start by introducing myself. I'm afrnch 19 years old student (in IT). Because of several reasons(french school program, and awful middle school), I can say that Iknow nothing about music. All I know is the name of some musicinstruments and read notes (slowly) on music sheet.

    But, I like music and I'm interestedin. Since this summer, I'm thinking (like seriously) about startingto learn playing the trumpet (that's why I'm hear).

    So, if you are reading this you're nowthinking : « okay, but what is his problem ? »

    I have several question, and I'm notreally pressed so I hope you could answer to my questions.

    The first question is really simple :should I start by a student trumpet ?

    I know that in the USA there is''school band '' and there generally students start with studenttrumpet (I'm french so do not hesitate to correct anything wrong).But, I'm not (and my parents also because I'm still living with them)wealthy. You would probably say : ''But there is plenty ofstudent trumpet which are affordable'' and I'd say : ''You'reright''.

    So my question is : ''Actually isstudent horn good enought ?'' I precise, because for me this isquite expensive, I would like to keep it for at least 5 or 10 years(and best would be for my life but I think I'm demanding to muchhere...), and I want to know if I buy a student trumpet, will I be''blocked'' in terms of playing by its quality ? (I don't knowabout student horns so please don't be offensed by what I'm saying,I'm just asking question with what I know).

    After that the question of the brand ofthe trumpet is comming. Before asking on TM, I've made researches (onTM and the internet), so I'm aware that there are as much goodtrumpets as the number of stars in the sky. But for someone whodoesn't know about trumpet this is quite hard to find which are gooddeal and which are trap. Because of shipment reasons I've mainlysearched on ebay. And there were plenty of trumpets. I've noticeseveral which can be good (and in my range price) which are :

    -Holton T602R
    -Jupiter JTR-600

    Can you give me your opinion on them ?Also, I've heard about the brand ''Valiant'' do you know something about it ?

    My next question is : ''Shoud Ibuy a trumpet new or used ?''

    Buying a new trumpet would be evident :valves are clean and recent, no dent, bell and pipes are unharmed.But, this cost a lot (actually too much for my budget or may be I'mnot good at searching :roll:). So I'd prefer buy a used one, but betweenthose which have ''collision damage'' and those which have theplating (''lacquer''?) damaged and those which have rust marks Idon't know how far I could go by buy a ''damaged'' trumpet.

    Unfortunatly, I still have questions(please hang on;-)). Are all the mouthpieces compatible with alltrumpet ? For what I know, there are often talk about 3C and 7Cmouthpiece. Should I start with something like that ?

    My last question (yipee!) :Trumpets are made in different kind of metal : gold, silver andbrass.
    What are the difference ?

    So thank you for reading. I'll make aresume of my questions. Also, if there is too much for answering oncedo not hesitate to reply only for one question or redirect me onolder topics (I've tried to use the research feature of this websitebut unfortunatly I can make it work properly...).

    Resume of my questions :

    -Should I start with a student horn ?

    -Are Holton and Jupiter's studenttrumpet good ? Would you advice other brand ?

    -Should I get a new or a used horn ?If I choose a used one, how can I make the difference between the''okay'' damages and the ''pass this deal'' damage ?

    -Are the mouthpieces compatible ?Would you recommande a particular type for the beginning ?

    -What is the difference betweengold,silver and brass trumpet ?

    Useful extra information :

    -My budget max is about 220$(without shipment costs)
    -I'm looking for a horn which couldlast at least 5 or 10 years

    Thank you for your attention. Bestwishes for this end of year and happy Chrismas.

  2. Bflatman

    Bflatman Forte User

    Nov 27, 2008
    Manchester, England
    I will say just a few simple things.

    Read everything written in here and keep reading, all your questions will be answered and you will learn so much more than I can ever tell you, and much more than I will ever know.

    Very soon you will know more than enough to buy with confidence.

    Personally I would have no hesitation recommending a Yamaha, they are one of the most reliable manufacturers. You dont get a bad Yamaha, and their student models can take a student a long long way.

    Finding a trumpet player who can look a trumpet over for you before you buy is the best strategy, to make sure nothing is missing or broken, and it plays well.

    Buying an instrument that was used by a student in a school is also a good strategy, many young students give up very quickly and a nearly new instrument can be purchased at a low price.

    Good luck
  3. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    Here's a good starter, and find a teacher to help you.
    Selmer Bundy Trumpet w/ Case | eBay

    You live in France, Buy a French Product.

    Any instrument will do at the moment, my first horn did me for 6 months and worked well. You will need to up-grade later if you continue.

    A local school, or place a note on the local Notice Board to help you get started. A good teacher will save you a lot of time.
    Good luck, and Welcome. Keep asking questions.
  4. OldSchoolEuph

    OldSchoolEuph Mezzo Piano User

    Apr 1, 2011
    As was said, read far enough into the archives and you will find many answers to all of your questions here.

    The primary question depends on what one means by "student trumpet". There are a great many super cheap new horns available online and in catalogs that are so unreliable or just bad that they have a high likelihood of frustrating a beginner to the point of quitting. HOWEVER, you have named 2 specific models with good track records. The Jupiter jtr-600 (and you might want to think about the jtr-606 models as well) are good solid horns. The intonation is imperfect, but the tone quality they are capable of is superior (and intonation on student horns is typically imperfect - it will give you ample experience adjusting using the 2 throws). The old Holton T-602R was made by Yamaha for Holton. It is an excellent horn as student horns go. Be careful about the exact model though, as that R at the end is important. (Plus there was a 612R from the east block, and a 604 model, both of which I do not recommend)

    Brass instruments are made of brass. High copper red brass is sometimes used for corrosion resistance and thinner, lighter more responsive bells, sterling silver bells, which have a more complex overtone profile can be found on high end pro horns, but not student. The outward appearance is typically lacquer over brass (and the occasional nickel trim - purely for looks), silver plating on the brass, or gold plating on the brass. Old lacquers were heavy and altered some playing characteristics relative to the horn being left in raw brass. Plating, by contrast, is so thin it has no impact at all on performance. Silver plating looks good, helps the horn last, and is a natural anti-microbial. But it tarnishes. Gold tarnishes much less, but is very very expensive (about 1300 USD to gold plate a trumpet right now) - it is not found on student horns. In your budget, you are looking at lacquer.

    Mouthpieces use a standard taper today, so yes, interchange. Picking the right one is best done with the help of a good teacher.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  5. J. Jericho

    J. Jericho Fortissimo User

    Mar 16, 2011
  6. pss

    pss Piano User

    Jun 14, 2016
    Hi Mordian. You should buy a student trumpet, and my first choice would be Yamaha. Unless you can test the horn, it better be new to avoid surprises, and the problems you mentioned are not the worst, valve problems are worst. "Student" doesn't mean bad for a respectable brand. You mentioned Holton, and considering that those don't show up in Europe very often, I suspect you are considering eBay.com. If I'm rigth, don't forget you'll pay import taxes. Are you considering buying online something like a CarolBrass cheaper model ? Where in France are you located? Are there any locals shops where you could find a used horn?
  7. Kesh

    Kesh Pianissimo User

    Oct 6, 2015
    There are good student trumpets (Yamaha, Jupiter, Carol Brass) that you can buy from www.thomann.de for about €400 - €500 and they will be something you can learn on for years and years.
  8. jimc

    jimc Mezzo Piano User

    May 21, 2009
    Spokane, WA USA
    Your budget is limited, but easily encompasses a decent used 'student' horn---at least here in the USA. A good such horn would not be limiting, for the non-prodigy, probably until college. (Meaning, for the first six years or so of playing.) And, would best be kept on as a backup and/or marching/pep-band horn anyway. Cosmetic challenges like spotty lacquer, tarnish, really can lower the price, and can thus be your friend, if they don't put you off unduly. Elbow grease can reverse some, or nearly all of the effects of age. (Heavily tarnished silver horns can truly look bad, and can really come back to a quite nice appearance. Silver, though, usually comes at a premium, and anybody who knows what they are doing will polish it up themselves first before selling, at a greatly increased price.) Small dents are no big deal, and usually easily dealt with, but larger damage is probably to be avoided. The best deal on a pro-level horn I've ever heard of, for a ready-to-play and rather nice horn, was a once-in-a-lifetime $350 Benge that a friend of mine bought for his son's upgrade. Usually a good deal on a horn like that is more like twice that price. I'm sure the market dynamics of what is available for you in France is somewhat different than what is available here in the western USA, but given that the prototypical American horn is a French design you should be OK.

    If at all possible, enlist the help of a teacher or knowledgeable friend in your hunt. They will know more than you about what is a good deal and what is not, regarding condition, etc. I once bought an oboe for my wife, and we conducted the sale in the shop of our favorite technician. He looked at it and pronounced it good. I didn't need any such help for brass, but I'm nearly clueless when it comes to rating firewood...

    They all use the same mouthpieces. Like shoes, the correct size for you can't really be stated by anybody. In the USA a 7C is considered the 'average' size, and in the absence of better information is a correct choice. It's what usually comes with a horn, if the horn comes with a mouthpiece at all. As you develop, you'll be capable of amending this choice yourself, based on your needs, desires, and abilities.
    Vulgano Brother likes this.
  9. Acludwig1

    Acludwig1 Mezzo Piano User

    Nov 22, 2016
    Rehoboth Beach, Delaware
    Hey Moridan, let me start by saying, you'll like trumpet but be pacient with it, you'll get good eventually. I'm kinda biased here, but a good student horn is a Bach TR300. It is fairly cheap to buy, cheap to fix, easy to find, and is good quality for a student horn. However I would definitely get one used because you can get a gently used one for under $300 as opposed to a $600 new horn. You can buy a a TR300 in silver but it's a little more expensive, but if it's in your budget, by all means go for it. Many people myself included think silver looks/sounds better than brass but it's all about personal preference. Most of the time the mouthpiece comes with the trumpet. If you like the mouthpiece stick with it if you don't, buy another one. Whatever you do avoid Chinese and Indian brands. These are trumpets that you can get for under $120 new, but are horrible quality, are often out of tune and break a lot. Some of these brands are mendini by Cecilo, merano, Tristar, first act, nadir Ali, and Sai music. Also stay away from plastic and colored trumpets. They're bad quality and just look stupid. I hope you go far with trumpet and you can private message me if you have any questions. Merry Christmas!
  10. Mordian

    Mordian New Friend

    Nov 11, 2016
    Sorry for the delay of answer.

    Thank you very much everyone. I've learnt a lot.

    I think I'll wait for the spring, when I could afford a good used horn like Yamaha (or perhaps Bach).

    Also I think I will follow your advice about asking a teacher.

    Thank you and have great time with your friends and family for this end of year.

    Best wishes.


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