aaaarrgh - timing!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by revjames, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    I was making notes to myself as I read down this thread, and when I got to the end to Phil's post, it actually was the same as the first note I made to myself, LOL.

    revjames, veery's comments about not playing dead on the beat are excellent. However, I think first I'd check to make sure that it's not a physical coordination conflict problem (as Phil noted above) rather than a matter of a conflict in concept, first. Just to check this out, I'd give yourself a little test.

    Take a metronome, set it at a reasonable tempo, and play the same pitch in quarter notes (crochet?) exactly on every other downbeat. Can you do that?
    If you can't, (and assuming you can on your bass), then I would say it's a physical problem and that your embouchure, air stream, tongue, etc are not reacting with the kind of control you need them to react with. I don't think this thread is the place for going into the kind of detail needed to coach you on all of the various exercises and concepts you will need for that. Perhaps some use of the search function or starting another thread?

    If you can play on the alternate beats, then I'd expand that exercise to consecutive quarter notes.
    If that works, do it with eighth notes.
    If that works, go to one of the tunes you are trying to learn and play with a metronome and play the first and third note of each measure, as you play through the first several bars of the tune, emphasising the downbeats, and making sure that you are precisely with the metronome.
    If that works, do it with every beat in the measure.
    Now play the tune with the metronome, accenting each downbeat. It's not musical, but that's not the purpose.
    Once you can play the tune with the metronome, transfer to BIAB and play the tune, again emphasising every downbeat.
    when you have that under control, you can gradually loosen the reigns, but you always have to know where the beat is and be able to return to it.

    I also agree with VetPsycWars comments about being so trapped in the music, you loose awareness of what's going on around you, musically. the music. Our awareness and ears vary, of course, but I've always found it helpful to listen to the ride cymbal for orientation to the beat. Sure, the bass lays it down, but it's low acoustic doesn't always make it through the group sound as well as a high-pitched instrument, at least for me.

    Ouch. I just read this: "I am always finishing bars too early/late..." That's a disaster!

    Well, there are plenty of suggestions above. There are no shortcuts. frankly, if you are finishin late/early by a matter or entire bars, maybe you should re-think doing that upcoming gig, or at least doing it differently.
     
  2. revjames

    revjames Piano User

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    Yes I can do that...

    Working on this - having a session with trombone this aft too.
    edit - just tried it on eighths no problem. but still have a problem - albeit not as bad - playing the music with metronome in background.

    Yes definitely - I play bass without even thinking or even looking at where my fingers are - certainly no music needed or even a chord chart, but with trumpet I need a very high level of concentration. Even if I've been out for a run and am slightly tired my playing is affected. Most concentration is on blowing a nice tone and getting the notes in the right places and sadly timing seems to be low on the priority list.

    Well as I said the 'gig' sounds a lot grander than it is. Basically a loose collection of jazz players and appreciators of mainly old age pensioners - and myself and trombone player in our forties are way the youngest there. What we are going to do is have a good crack at a couple of numbers we think we'll get away with and go to one of the club members house (sax player) and have a play and see what he thinks. If he thinks we'll be OK then I'm up for it if he says not ready yet then I'll work on it.

    I know I have responded in detail to Kehaulani in particular, I also value all the comments and PMs I've been sent and will take on board what I can and humbly learn from you all. Really glad I found this place.

    James
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2012
  3. Dupac

    Dupac Fortissimo User

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    "Just one Instrument: 2012 Yamaha Xeno YTR8335R Reverse Lead Pipe."

    Not the worse choice ! ;-)
    Mikel
     
  4. revjames

    revjames Piano User

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    Heres the thing Dupac, I am deadly serious about playing and 100% committed. I didnt want anything other than my own ability to hinder my performance so I bit the bullet and bought the best I could. After much careful consideration the Xeno was the obvious choice and I must say its been worth every penny.

    James
     
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  5. Dupac

    Dupac Fortissimo User

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    I could make the same speech about my own Xeno 8335 RGS, ... with "eurocent" instead of "penny". :lol:
     
  6. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Rev, don't think it's a dig, just that you only have 1 horn (I have close to 2 dozen!). That's a good horn.
     
  7. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    This is my problem, well described by Tom.

    I've been playing by ear for 40 years .... on a variety of instruments. I have the touch ... I can make anything musical. But, stick written music in front of me and all of that goes right out the window, and I can lose my timing and my musical sense. After all the success I've had with other instruments (all by ear), learning to read music in my 50's was a shock I was not expecting.

    Memorize the trumpet part(s) and play it/them from memory and see if that improves your timing. ;-)


    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2012
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  8. Dupac

    Dupac Fortissimo User

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    +1 (from my own experience).
     
  9. revjames

    revjames Piano User

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    Just had a lesson this afternoon. Been working on 'fly me to the moon' for a while. Its in D which is slightly outside the comfort zone, but anyway I have baan playing it all day prior to the lesson and getting every note spot on pitch wise when playing to the written music. Timing still an issue, however we tried an exercise, I played the piece but played only a single note and the timing was spot on. So its looking like my problem is with the whole multi tasking area of playing. Play it note perfect without the timing or play it in time with only one note... I will persevere
     
  10. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    Uh . . . does that sound familiar? ;-)
     

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