After all these years I realize I suck!!!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by PhatmonB6, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    Thanks for the info. Nope, I'm not a free buzzer. Mouthpiece, yes, lips only, no.

  2. rjzeller

    rjzeller Forte User

    Mar 7, 2005
    Rochester, MN
    You know my favorite part about this thread is the title -- it pretty much describes my feeling after I studied with ML a few months back....

    But the recent lip buzzing dialogue has me thinking -- and this may mean absolutely nothing, but I find it interesting...

    I can play down to low F#, then F, then E, Eb, D, Db and it all on any mouthpiece, however fuzzy on some of the smaller pieces, but pedal C has always been hit or miss. Then I switched to a Bach 1 1/2 C mouthpiece and I can play tons of pedals well below the Db. Couldn't do that on my old 3B.

    But I plenty of peers who can do so on their 3C, 5B, Shew 1.5, or whatever they're playing. Is my technique flawed that I require such a wide rim to hit the lowest pedals?

    Or more importantly, does it even matter?

    Frank Minear's ten page manual on playing to double-high C did more for my range than the pedal-laden "Double-High C in 37 Weeks" ever did.
  3. NickD

    NickD Forte User


    When I do demonstrations with my natural trumpet in C, I have a hard time hitting the "fundamental" on it. A C natural trumpet is twice as long as a regular C trumpet, so the "fundamental" is an octave lower than the regular pedal C. In order to make it a bit easier, I'll use the trombone mouthpiece I use in my bass trumpet to demonstrate that note.

    You certainly shoudn't be surprised at how much easier it is to hit the pedals with a bigger mouthpiece. Heck, try a Laskey 84C or a Bach 1B! They'll really pop out. Better yet, try your flugelhorn.

    Some folks practice pedals and can hit them on any mouthpeice, but I'll bet they'd find it easier on the big mouthpieces as well.

    In short, simply from reading your post I would never conclude you were doing anything wrong at all. Naaaahh, you're cool!

    BTW, I put the word "fundamental" in quotes as there isn't really a fundamental on a trumpet in the usual sense. John Backus refered to it as a false fundamental as that pedal C is quite out of tune. It can be lipped into tune, but that is forcing things. When Claude Gordon said the pedal is very flat when you first try to get it, he was right! It is "supposed to be" flat. It's a long story about why this is, and I'll save that for a clinic lecture somewhere. Also, flugels play more in tune down there, I suspect, due to the more conical nature of the horn. Pedals are much easier on my cornet, too.

    OK, it's summer time and I'm getting dangerously close to spouting physics! Sorry! I don't know what came over me.


  4. rjzeller

    rjzeller Forte User

    Mar 7, 2005
    Rochester, MN
    Nick -- I LOVE physics discussions!! Spout away! I appreciate the feedback, and given what I heard on those audio tracks after you tested the Phaeton, I'll accept pretty much any advice you throw my way.
  5. Calliope

    Calliope New Friend

    Jun 17, 2005
    Lip Buzzing

    Going back to the lip buzzing issue... I find it to be enormously helpful. Many teachers may disagree (including my former teacher Manny Laureano) but I have been converted because of what it has done for my playing. My range has improved dramatically because my lips have the strength, and so I don't have to rely on pressure playing or a chocked off air stream to get the job done. My center of pitch has improved because I'm no longer guessing where to put the note. And my endurance has improved because I have a stronger face. But Nick was right - only a little bit at a time. Lip buzzing is like lifting heavy weights; if you over do it, you'll be sore for a very long time. Just a few minutes a day will do it. I started out lip buzzing by trying to buzz a simple tune. You'll start gaining control that way. Anything is worth trying once if it's going to help your trumpet playing, isn't it?


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