Another Audition Failure (Tone)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by garmeth, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    You mean on the trumpet, Steve?:-P
  2. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

    Oct 3, 2008
    Cary NC
    In my opinion 32 seconds is an extremely long time to be able to play a note or a phrase. I am in the 10 to 12 second range with my playing. I'm guessing that I am putting twice the amount of air through my lips than you are. I am trying to be helpful with my opinion here. I feel strongly that you would have more solid tone and timbre if you did the same exercise that took you 32 seconds in 20 or 25 seconds. I think you are shorting the tone with a lack of pure volume through the trumpet resulting in a weaker tone. I might be wrong, but, of course without hearing you, more volume through the trumpet will increase the fullness of your tone. It sounds like you have the fast fingerings down pat since you scored well with less than optimal " tone ". Try for a larger fuller sound for a few weeks...then add your quick fingers....finally range. You'll get there in due time and look back and laugh at what it took to get there.
  3. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    Chuck - completely off-topic but . . . why do you take up all that room for a signature block of horns you no longer have and the prices you sold them for? Does that relate back to some kinds of prior posts or information?
  4. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

    Oct 3, 2008
    Cary NC
    I put them up there a few months ago to let people know what the real market value of some nice horns. It also lets people know what horns I have evaluated. I probably repair/sell 30 trumpets a year as a hobby that I love. I agree that the list should come down. I thought about deleting it a few days ago, but, I got wrapped up in responding to posts here instead. I am proud of those trumpets that I had for a brief time. I played the fool out of 'em. On another note, I see that you have a Schilke and a Committee. By far my 2 favorite trumpets. Either will play any venue. Am I the only lead that screams with a Committee. The chatter says it just isn't done. I want to post the sound of different trumpets that I get to play on TM. I can talk about tone all day, but , it doesn't mean much without examples. All I need is the STV-250 cable from my Canon ZR10 ( purchased a week or so ago ) to my laptop.... then to a host site to here. I'll delete the junk on my signature.
  5. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    another comment about the tone thing
    When I was in Jr High .. the music class teacher ( a Juliard graduate concert soprano) heard a recording of the band and asked me who was playing a certain trumpet solo ... I told her it was me... again she really who is that.. and I told her again, no really it's me. She was stunned and just said "you are very talented ... it really was a tone issue..
    at a JC college..played lead in concert and jazz band ... generally I always had great compliments on my tone ... not generally always .. so we did this feature trumpet piece for jazz band competion ...the judge used a tape recorder to talk and give evaluation ... started talking about how he didn't think he liked my tone.. said yeah not a jazz trumpet tone ... for the whole piece .... I wasn't shocked because I knew I didn't sound like Miles or Shew or anyone like that ..
    move to the Cal State system.. talking to the band director he said he thought I had an immature tone ... so I pondered this ... because everyone, even pros I had been around liked my tone ...
    I discussed it with my instructor and he said well he probably wants the orchestra sound.. which is fine if you want to go foo foo all night with your attacks...
    I thnk we all will agree different genres have different tones or attacks or both if you want to stand out from the masses. I don't think it is an easy thing to aquire. First and foremost you have to develope a solid trumept sound .. full .. resonant. .. and I do agree with Chuck 32 seconds and a solid mezzo forte is hard to believe given all you are saying.
    Allen Vizutti ( and Chuck) and dead on .. tone tone tone.
    Play long tones and see if you can make the horn resonate ... Hymns sound like a great idea.. full melodic.
    that's my too long take
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    What orchestra is like this? If you had any idea about the audition process you wouldn't post crap like this. Last time that I checked, players that blow the braces off the horn get noticed AND credit.

    If you are interested in the truth, the auditions are monitored by players in the orchestra, many times behind closed curtains. Once the final round has reduced the field to 2 or three, those players sit in with the orchestra and get a chance to prove themselves. It is true that perhaps the principals chosen are not the finest players on earth. A principal needs other qualities like stability (playing and emotional), style that fits in the current orchestral fabric and acceptance of the current musical goals. They also need leadership qualities not present in many soloists.

    Of all the major symphony orchestras that I have had the chance to hear, I have noticed no losers. I personally only know of one single issue between a conductor and a player getting a job: Abbie Conant after she won the solo trombone position at the Munich Radio Orchestra. The conductor, Sergiu Celibedache would not let a woman play solo trombone. It went to court and she eventually won. Even here you see, she got the job. It was not a crony of the conductor who filled in during the legal battle.

    This brings me to another issue that people not in the business don't know. The big conductors don't have musical friends that move around with them. All of the principal players pretty much stay put and get to know MANY changes of the guard. I know of no first trumpeter that ever moved with any conductor.

    If we talk about specialized chamber ensembles, the story gets a bit fuzzy. The "historically correct" projects that I am involved with are often the same group, regardless of the conductor. When not playing with a well tempered scale, when period improvisation is required, it is easier to get the results with players that have proven themselves. In this case it isn't cronyism, it is efficiency. You simply need more rehearsal time for players that don't get it. Privately funded projects do not have unlimited money to support those not yet ready.
  7. melza

    melza Pianissimo User

    Mar 12, 2010
    When I was beginning if I was trying to get a tone or 'sound' like another player, I will listen to their piece with one earphone in and play along, repeating, before long you do start to sound like them. But you really want to develop your own tone so just keep practicing, taking on the advice given and it will happen.
  8. edfitzvb

    edfitzvb Forte User

    Jun 10, 2008
    Woodlawn, VA
    Okay, I can't stand it. I need to add my .02

    My father told me years ago "Sing through the horn." It was probably the most basic and at the same time most illuminating comments I ever received. It is what Rowuk was talking about with the hymnal. Play play play play and then play some more. Play for the joy of making music. Relax and let the sound come. Everyone is a bit different, but your goal is purity. No extras, just nice easy vibrations from the horn that are relaxed and pure. THEN work on nuances for different tone "colors." If the sound is pure, it will be pleasing. Hope this clarifies/helps your understanding of earlier posts. You have gotten excellent advice from Rowuk and from Chuck Cox that address the basics of a good authentic trumpet sound
  9. garmeth

    garmeth New Friend

    Dec 4, 2010
    Thanks for the responses everyone, I have one question, however. Chuck Cox said 32 is a long time to be playing without running out of air, but how do I use more air without getting louder ? I'm confused.
  10. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

    Aug 15, 2009
    45 years ago I remember there was a list of "tests" you had to pass to be admitted to the HS band. One was all 8 scales for memory. Another was holding a note for 30 seconds. Guess I must have. Seems sort of silly now.

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