Another Audition Failure (Tone)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by garmeth, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Everyone can read your original post. It is still here. There could be a valid reason why no one remembers it. Could also have to do with also being the only one who discounts physics.

    I am not so quick to discount the judges - even although the club robinson approach is more of what everyone WANTS to hear. Garmeth is on a good path. Plenty of tunes and simply slowing down. I am sure that if we dig a bit, we will find much more to work on to stabilize Garmeths playing.

    It is a pretty good lesson in life to learn that you very often have trouble moving forward when you pee on the leg of the conductor or your boss.

    The semantic game of "bright" in a high school setting and "bright"(I prefer the word "brilliant") in a professional setting does give us insight in the science of perception. Learning to understand the difference is part of becoming a more mature player and teacher. Funny how even the clarinet or viola player conductors only bitch about LOUD from pros, never about "bright". In high school settings it is almost 100% the other way around.

    In the case of auditions we also have psychological factors that lead to various results as well. For those of you that think that other players give trumpet players a bum rap, I say think again. The principles of solid musicianship are the same for all instruments. Trumpet players that are occasionally on receive instead of only transmit discover a completely different world where cohabitation is a reality. In that world, LOUD also has a place, just not in a binary way.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  2. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    Jul 1, 2011

    Take note of Rowuks debating style: he can not refute my ideas because he can not comprehend them. It's like he's missing one of the five human senses or something. A complete blockage of most everything i write. So he does like others do who can not understand new ideas: he puts words in my mouth. Making the typical straw man arguments. Don't fall for it.

    I have never denied the value of physics in trumpet playing at all. Only that in the context of the many failed 19th century ideas STILL often presented that the average instructor ought not teach them to his trumpet students. We can not expect the ordinary instructor to understand the physics because he has never seen them addressed adequately. So how can the instructor possibly help when he has no idea of the physics involved? When his own ideas would violate physical law??? Nothing can do that outside of fantasy and magic...

    One can not give away what he doesn't have. Provable statistically that all chop systems have a high failure rate. Stevens, Gordon, Maggio, Caruso even Reinhardt though his was better than the others.

    So i have occasionally declared that the trumpet instructor should not go much further than the "Just tongue and blow" concept. For one because it is simple and two because it works at least as well as anything else and usually better.

    It is only above the High D that the physics must often be understood in order for the trumpet player not blessed with natural range ability to excel.

    I would appreciate it if this MODERATOR would not put his petty grievances on display in the main forum. After all a moderator ought be held to a higher standard than the average schmoe who posts here. It's called "positive decorum" and i shouldn't have to explain this to Rowuk. There is a very effective system of private messages to handle his discontent. However if Rowuk CONTINUES his line of personal attacks i will oblige him by pointing out his numerous deficiencies in the understanding of trumpet teaching techniques. I would prefer not to do this but it is he (Rowuk) who always seems to set the ball rolling.

    First please check your ego at the door and prepare to be b-tch slapped before debating me on the physics. Better yet BECOME TEACHABLE. Stop putting words in my mouth too. There's nothing wrong in admitting one made a mistake or lacks a certain knowledge. It takes a big man to realize this and hold himself accountable.
  3. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Just a general observation here—we all look at the world through different lenses (and hear through different ears). I certainly have my own set, but as I mature (yeah, I know, I’m in my mid-50’s and am still maturing) I try to be able to look through other people’s lenses and listen with their ears. I know it is not just a trumpet & musician thing (I just happen to have more experience with trumpeters and other musicians) but there is a strong temptation to blame our inadequacies on others. Judges, critics, audition committees, colleagues, moderators and conductors make good targets. Sometimes we need new lenses, but more often we need to remove our blinders.

    There are many contrasting elements involved in playing—bright vs. dark, loud vs. soft, etc. The list is pretty big, and an excellent exercise for students is to try to list as many as they can (not a bad thing for us old folk, either). With each of these there is a bell curve, and in order to be musical we need to be able to move to the right or left of the top at any given moment. This leads to what is called “the Goldilocks effect.” Some will find us too bright, too dark or “just right.” Here too there is a bell curve.

    What “just right” is depends on who is listening. If I define “just right” exclusively as what comes through my brain and out my bell then I am wearing blinders, and do a disservice to my craft, my listeners and music as a whole. Because I’ve listened—to recordings, judges, critics (not so much!), conductors, and colleagues and learned from the above as well as failed auditions and the TM community, my “just rightness” covers a pretty broad spectrum.

    In closing, another bell curve to consider: Superman to the right, Clark Kent to the left. Like the other bell curves to “lock in” at one point destroys any chance for “just rightness” and is evidence of either our own inadequacies or blinders.
  4. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    I think, Garmeth, that this is a very good lesson to just keep with it. While I am of the opinion that the auditioner's judge of "brightness" may have been skewed, we all still know that we can work on ALL aspects of playing, including tone, regardless of whether it is bright or not. Consider this a "call to arms" -- keep practicing, be more focused and critical in your practice sessions of how you can improve, and strive for musicality. If you continue on the path you're on, I think you'll find it's not such a "failure" after all.

    Keep it up.
  5. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

    Jan 23, 2004
    Novato, CA, USA
    Absolutely! This is also a golden opportunity to learn - in the real world you rarely get feedback as to why you didn't get a job or position. Take whatever feedback you get, filter it through your common sense filter, and apply.

    It's difficult for everyone to accept criticism, but it is in my humble opinion one of the best tools we have for improving.
  6. reedy

    reedy Piano User

    Jul 31, 2009
    Wiltshire, UK
    I havent had a chance to read all the posts apart from the opening few and my views are.....

    how are you too bright!? sounding bright is great in my opinion, aslong as its not airy, its better than having a dull tone.....

    I recently took my heavy bottom valve caps off my selmer TT to give me a brighter sound, I use a tighter Backbore to get a brighter sound too with a medium cup.

    I always liked my dark mellow tone as a jazzer and its great for solos etc, but its hard to blend in with a load of brighter sounding strads, the more I practiced the brighter my sound got, I diddnt mean to, but it did, this brighter sound gave me an edge when I needed to play lead, I could also blend in to the section better in wind bands and orchestras.

    but without hearing or seeing you play I cant really help much.

    when he said bright did he mean your tone in general or the attack of your notes?

    your not using a stupidly shallow MP are you?

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