Another sticky valve posts....AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by guitarsrmine, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. guitarsrmine

    guitarsrmine Piano User

    270
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    Dec 29, 2008
    Franklin, Pa
    Ok, here goes. I bought me a new Jupiter trumpet(dont be laughin!) 3 years ago, and 2 years ago, I switched to Ultra Pure valve oil. My valves were gliding right along, doing fine, and now, no matter what I do, they stick!!! And drag so bad, I dont even want to play it!! I soaked it in the tub,cleaned it meticuously, scrubbed the valve casing with Dawn,soaked the valves in Dawn/water,rinsed everything well,oiled each valve with 4-5 drops, and still STICKING!!! Talk about frustrating...at least I have my beat-up old Getzen Super Deluxe to fall back on!! I just dont get it.....great valve action for SO long, and now, nothing I do is helping. I know the horn hasnt been damaged, and I def dont use a goruilla grip around the valve casings.....Im so mad at this problem!:evil: I want to be able to play it out, but Im so in fear of a valve sticking during mid-solo, that I just wanna leave it home!!! Please, any advice will be so appreciated!!
     
  2. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

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    Cary NC
    Cover the entire sticking valve with magic marker, then reinsert into casing. Push it a few times then take it out and see where the marker is missing. That is your friction area. Realize that a very few small specs of dried detergent or something in a valve casing will slow or stop a valve. Spray rinse WELL. Also try putting a different valve in place of the sticking valve. See if it's the valve or the casing.
     
  3. DCIGene

    DCIGene New Friend

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    Jan 3, 2010
    Alabama
    What has always worked for me is taking a soft toothbrush and some Brasso. Wipe the valve really well. Put a little Brasso on the toothbrush. Gently spread the Brasso over the whole valve. Now take the valve and run it in and out of the valve casing from the top and the bottom. Be very gentle from the bottom but it will move ok an work out any small imperfections on the valve and the casing. Rinse and wipe off the valve and get the casing clean. Put your 5 drops of valve oil on the valve and that should fix it.
    What happens with every Jupiter valve I have ever fixed is that no matter what oil you use it will eventually collect on the valve and get gummed up. The Brasso keeps it working a little better for a little longer than normal. Let me know.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If it is only old oil creating the problem, why remove metal with Brasso?. Acetone would remove any gunk without making the valves "leakier". Think about your description "small imperfections". Please explain how a piston moving up and down in the casing can develop "imperfections". It can't unless we damage the piston when taking it out of the case or when running a metal snake carelessly through the valve casing.

    Removing material is always the LAST resort. One of the critical parameters on a valve is the microscratches from the lapping process. That lets the oil work properly. Polished valves (like what happens when we brasso them!) are almost impossible to lubricate properly (intact film of oil separating valve and casing).

    I have no doubts that removing material makes the valves less sensitive to improper care. That is not generally my desired course of action.
     
  5. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Try a 50/50 water/white vinegar soak for the pistons. Try using less than 5 drops of UP - like only two.
    Then try a different oil. Oils aren't universally compatible with a players chemistry or all horns. I suggest you clean and try Wick Oil with PTFE.

    Always thoroughly clean valves and casings between different oils. Too much oil is not necessarily bad, but it can be.
     
  6. TRUMPONIMUS

    TRUMPONIMUS New Friend

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    Aug 5, 2005
    veery,
    Have you tried going ack to your former valve oil?
    Here is something to try ... Blow through the hole in the bottom of the valve itself.
    The proper way to do it is this....
    Take the valve guides and pull them up to the top of the valve to compress the spring fully.
    Put your lips around the bottom of the valve and gently, then harder, blow air through the inside of the valve until you feel it coming through the hole at the top of the valve.
    Sometimes the same stuff we wash off the valves gets trapped inside this area and restricts the flow of air going through the valve and slows it down.
    If that doesn't work try T2 Special valve oil ....it should fix your problem check it out at La Tromba T2 Valve Oil
    or comtact me [email protected]

    Jimmy
     
  7. JNINWI

    JNINWI Piano User

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    Apr 26, 2011
    Earth
    Take it to a professional repair person. They have been trained to remedy these small problems.
     
  8. tbaldrid

    tbaldrid Pianissimo User

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    Oct 10, 2009
    Yes!!!

    And almost never necessary. The valve didn't grow warts. Find the root cause and fix it. If a valve is rubbing the casing, either the casing is out of whack or the valve is. There are reasons and remedies for both, from minor (bent spring, contamination, etc.) to major (bent/deformed valve, stress on the valve casing). When you rule out the minor causes, take it to a good repair tech (one with a jar of lapping compound collecting dust from non-use) and ask for help. If a repair tech immediately suggests lapping the valves, find another repair tech. Causes behind valve issues can be subtle but they can (almost?) allways be fixed without lapping.
     
  9. ccNochops

    ccNochops Piano User

    260
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    Sep 30, 2006
    White Marsh, VA
    What worked for me: I had the most "clean" valves ever know to man.....period......or so I thought. The occasional sticking valve drove me nuts until someone around here told me to try a little rubbing alcohol in the casings on a clean rag......uh, no so clean valve casings. Once I got the old "unseen" gunk outta the casings & valves, things seem to be working much better now......my .02 worth.
     
  10. guitarsrmine

    guitarsrmine Piano User

    270
    71
    Dec 29, 2008
    Franklin, Pa
    Thanks for everyone's input!! Im deff not going the Brasso route....like the one poster said,"The valves didnt grow warts!!"....Im just surorised that since switching to Ultra Pure 2 years ago, they(valves) were super slick and speedy....but it just seems like theres some foreign(or international, to be politically correct)object in there, slowing them and making them stick....At least I have some tips to use....THANKS,friends!!!
     

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