Anyone Else Think that Big Corperations Have Killed the Industry's Excitement?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Let me be clear what I mean. Large Corperations buy up competitors companies and then basicly just let them run intot he ground by not really manageing the brand or allowing for significant new devlopment etc...... Other then the positive's that resulted from Bach being bought out by Selmer the rest of the brands under Selmer have preety much laid stagnant or declined. Like wise Leblanc or who ever owns them now if it is another company has bought up other companies over the years and preety much not done anything to benifit them and in many case's have hurt them.

    I understand that you do not want to have too many products competeing with what ever brand is favored internaly but you do not have to have all the companies chaseing the same market! Look at Porsche,Audi and VW they have very little that compnets witht he other when you look at the total market that each catores too! You do not have to let one company al but die or offer low grade stuff to keep the other brands happy. If you are going to do something like that then just close that company down sell off their assets and move on! Look at what happened to Martin and Holton most noteably? You have other's as well Olds is not with us any more and neither is Reynolds not really at least.

    So any one want to kick Selmer in the rear or Leblanc let's hear the rant? WHat brands do you think have suffered the most under large corperate buy out's? What brands do you think have had the greatest effect on the trumpet community by their loss? What do you think over all of the current mass produced trumpet sound ie what the industry thinks a trumpet should sound like compared to when it was a more diverse market place?????

    I am putting my flame resistant suit on now and knife and bullet resitant vest on too. Let the gamers begin!!!
     
  2. Dave Mickley

    Dave Mickley Forte User

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    In my tiny little mind the brand that suffered the worst by a buy-out was Benge, but that is just my opinion.
     
  3. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    I've been watching this happen since the late 1980s When UMI came on the scene It's not new.
     
  4. Ed Kennedy

    Ed Kennedy Forte User

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    Benge is gone, but MTI Burbank and Kanstul Chicago are here building great horns on the original Benge mandrils. The excitement is in the small shops: Blackburn, Sonare, Lawler, Harrellson, Reeves, Laskey-Pinc, Larson, Hub van Laar, NYTC, Callichio, Kanstul, Schilke, Flip Oaks, Jerry Callet, Fred Powell, Dr Valve (rumored to be building a new horn for Roger Ingram), Warburton has something in the works as well. I probably missed a few. In the '50's Bach was a small shop in Mt. Vernon NY. Sounds exciting to me!
     
  5. bigtiny

    bigtiny Mezzo Forte User

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    You're right, Bob, but the case with Benge is I think particularly bad. I have a 1965 3x+ and a 1972 CG. I got my first Benge in 1978 new, so that would have been an LA horn. I bought another in the early 90's which would have a UMI. The horn was basically the same as my LA horn...same design, played pretty much the same.

    I bought a new Benge about a year ago, which was made under the Conn-Selmer regime. They really screwed up the horn because they actually changed some basic design parameters, most notably, the leadpipe and mouthpiece receiver are different, and the valves are now short throw valves, not the traditional Benge long throw type.

    This horn seems well built enough, but it just doesn't play and respond like my others. It's not even CLOSE to the UMI I had. I'm going to keep it as a backup horn, but I'm going to let Jim Becker loose on it when I have the money and replace the leadpipe and whatever else he can think to do to make it play more like my other Benges.

    bigtiny
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Why do some always need to point a finger at someone or something. While a corporate buy out can change things, it is very often the fickle customer that just doesn't buy enough that determines the fate of brands without critical mass.

    We need to get out of blaming mode and look at reality: there are not infinite customers for every type of horn. Why did Bach become the standard and not Benge, Schilke, Martin, Olds or other manufacturers: it sure wasn't because they built a better horn or had a "better" sound.

    The reason is that the CUSTOMER percieved Bach to be a more "universal" or "desirable" horn. Bach did not tell any marketing lies that the others did not. They all claimed to be better in tune, easier to play and offer more security.

    Nope, the mass of customers determines the fate. As long as they keep buying, the manufacturer will respond appropriately. Benges problems started long before UMI.

    This is a pretty political issue and politics can get ugly. Let's try and find some FACTS instead of just dumping on big business. At the end of the day, every $200 Chinese horn sold also influences the fate of Bach, Selmer, Yamaha, Conn, ............. Is Jin Bao the evil one or the person buying those horns? Let's look in the mirror before pointing a finger!
     
  7. patdublc

    patdublc Pianissimo User

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    I have to agree with Ed. I think the world of instrument manufacturing is really exciting right now. Granted, the great legacy of Benge and Conn seems to be gone and Calicchio is no longer hand built by Domenick, but that is change and change is inevitable. But, the list goes on of the great small shops building incredible horns. I really admire almost everyone that Ed mentioned. In particular, Schilke has really treated me wonderfully. I would also add Getzen to the list.

    Take a look at the giants too - Yamaha is working to develop and market some very fine new designs. The two new C cornets are FABULOUS. But, they aren't rushing the introduction just to make a few bucks. They're really trying to get a high quality sustainable product to market.

    pat
     
  8. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    I'm not sure this is true. I think Bach was in NY where a lot of players and studios were then. You could go to his factory and talk to him. I think his horns were getting used more was because they were the best at the time and word spread. After he had a good base of users out there they taught their students and recommended Bach. Just like a pyramid.

    I think we are seeing a shift away from the big manufactures now. It's not all Bach or Yamaha. Even though they are still dominant. the little guy making a good trumpet is working back in.
     
  9. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

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    You'll get no flame nor chiding from me.

    More variety exists today than in 1979.
     
  10. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Hi lovevixen555
    I agree with you 100%. It is often that a large corp. will buy up a smaller company and dilute the product by cutting costs which can range from raw materials to workmanship.
    One of the reasons for the dilutions is to recoup the $ spent on the purchase of the small company.
    Unfortunately, when a large corp buys a small company, the large corp often replaces the management and along with that, generally changes the methodology of how the product is put together in an effort to become more efficient.
    Over the last couple of years, I have been approached by some of the largest corps in the music industry to purchase my small handcrafted trumpet mute, ringmute.com.
    It is for this reason (the watering down of the product in order to make stockholders happy) that I do not wish to sell my handcrafted mutes to any corp. I'd rather have them made one at a time by someone who knows what they're doing verses some machine pressed piece of crap from some foriegn country.
     

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