Anyone Know anyone that can add Garland to a bell?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I think that is what it is called. I have seen some aftermarket French Horn bells and they had a ring around the outer edge that looked like the tone ring on the old Getzen Delux Tone Ballanced trumpet's. They usualy have a floral patern on them. I would love to have somethign like that added to what ever bell I end up useing!! I love detail on instrument's. In fact I was considering haveing some engraveing done as well. I am tired of looking at the so called "modern trumpet" which is devoid of personality. Even $4000 trumpets today do not have as much detail work as a $100 trumpet from 60 years ago! When they have anything they are usualy rolled not actualy engrqaved.I know a guy that has done some pistol and rifle engraveing for me in the past if he is still alive. Truthfully for $1800 on up I think we should get a heck of a lot more then we get in todays trumpet's! In that price range they should at least offer a few very detailed rolled or machined engraveing to choose from.
     
  2. HSOtrumpet1

    HSOtrumpet1 Pianissimo User

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    I totally know what you mean about the personality Lovevixen, my Marcinkiewicz horn has engravings on the top of the bell that are in floral pattern around the words. (however, that's not why I bought the horn) I have also seen these on old cornets, it's really pretty. But, I think you are out of luck unless you are made of money and you have the ultimate connections. It just might cost less to buy a new horn than take it to some trumpet dealership to have it engraved. Of course nowadays they just might have a sort of stamp or something, but you mentioned that you want it actually engraved. IMHO, you shouldn't worry about it, it will cause you too much wasted time and energy, not to mention the cost. It's sort of a showy thing anyway. If it comes with the horn, great, if not, you should be more worried about how the horn plays. However, if you have your heart set on it and you do find someone that will do it for cheap, I'm happy for you! :thumbsup:
     
  3. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I have not been made out of money in a long time! Their was a time when I had more money then I knew what to do with but that has been a while!!!LOL No it is just something I would like to look into. I understand it is just for looks and does not effect the sound of the trumpet. It just seems like the prices keep going up but we keep getting less and less for our money! Fewer and Fewer trumpet's are made in America and most of them are made by machines etc.........

    General when you stop and look at what $1800-$4000 buys you it does not much buy that much. In fact you get less for your money then probably at any point in history. Seriously that does not even gurantee that every part of your trumpet will be hand made and hand assembled. In fact it does not even gurantee that the person assembeling the instrument even made it's major componet's? Really you can not tell a had assembled horn from a machine assembled on by appearance alone. In fact the machine assembled horns will probably have better fit and finish then the ones done by hand in a good many cases?

    Do not get me wrong I am not at all anti-custome hand built trumpet at all!!! I am just thinking that if you have to wait for it and it is going to cost a premium maybe a return to some old world craftsmanship would be nice. We already have plenty of plain cheap readily available student trumpets. I know if I should ever be in the market for a trumpet that cost 4 times what a student trumpet cost's it should not look like a student trumpet? Style and beauty are valued almost as much as the sound. This is why so many people copy the Bach Strad's apperance. They could reproduce the sound with out reproduceing the look. The reason so many cheap poorly built third world instruments choose to look like the Bach Strad is because it is very elagant and beautiful to look at! Same thing goes for Sonare and Monette they copy their designs as well because they are nice to look at. No one copies a Conn or a Selmer or Yamaha etc.....because for the most part the only ones that they make that look nice are copies of other designs. You follow me. So place between 1945 and today people bought into getting less and less for their dollar especialy with student instruments but then along the way they also decided it was ok to pay insane amounts of money for ugly professional models?

    Here is the thing though nothing changes unless the customer demands it! If enough people complained and stoped buying from a company long enough to affect it's profits they would listen. Well in the current political climate they would more then likely ask the government for a bail out but that is another story. Every company that has gone after the rental market has become less becasue of it. Look at Bach, Slemer,Bundy Conn??? Look at Leblanc, Holton,Martin etc.....Getzen was almost destroyed in my opinion by too much focus on rental market and it has only been recently that they have started to see the error of their way's.

    I do not expect a return to real human engravers but their now reason why they can not use automated engravers and offer some really nice full engraveing work with almost no increase in production cost as compared to not offering it. Instead of chargeing extra for the engraveing you charge less to those that do not want it like a discount.

    Again why should someone give you their money when they can just as easily give it to someone else. I gurantee that these types of leason's will not be missed by the Chineese when they decide they want to build Xeno level of instruments or higher it willnot take them long to add value and under cut their competitions price.
     
  4. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    "I love detail on instrument's. In fact I was considering haveing some engraveing done as well. I am tired of looking at the so called "modern trumpet" which is devoid of personality."

    This from the man who lambasted those who suggested gold-plating on mouthpieces. I guess adding $40 worth of personality on a mouthpiece is over the top, but a couple of hundred for custom engraving is OK?:dontknow:
     
  5. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    How about spends pages upon pages insulting custom horns and high end manufacturers but then wants to make his own hown with a garland, precious stone inserts, copper bells etc etc etc.
     
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  6. godchaser

    godchaser Banned

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    I love fine craftsmanship as well, l.v. There's no doubt that quality inspires and sustains us. -Nevermind the fact that the dollar isn't worth what it was- and aesthetic value is forever changing. Times when i was giving some real thought to Building Trumpets, i considered engraving also. Which lead me to the possibilities of functional-aesthetics. Something i thought might work to sound-benefit, was machining a repetitive pattern in thick stock; creating a deep carving over the entirety of the Horn. You would have a very heavy horn, that may well respond not unlike a light horn as well: given the thin valleys of material mingling in the raised and thicker material. Potentially this symmetry of high, low- thin, thick nuance, would serve to amplify, and project sound. And possibly offer an added layer of distortion to an existing sound-dynamic/design.

    If nothing else, you would have an incredible looking Trumpet. Something i might add, that would take a human a thousand times longer to produce, than a machine. ;) Fit and finish, would be a nightmare of neverending tweaks and adjustments, but i suspect it'd ping & sing real nice, once it was finished. Course the pattern could always be cut short above the joints, to smooth surfaces; but imagine the beauty of the pattern continuing uninterrupted around the valve body, also. Obviously this would require some hand carving to establish a seamless effect of pattern, but dag'gone- that would look sharp.

    The 'Studie', that Inderbinen builds: had me thinking about an ivy-pattern, with hanging ivy for additional weight, and interest to the eye. Course for any reputable Builder with the means to build something like that- they would have to consider if the lost revenue and disruption to do it, would be worthwhile. I can see something like this being done for a famous player; and serving as billboard for the co. -particularly for'a start up Builder. But still- it just doesn't seem at all, a reasonable endeavor.

    No matter- :) We will be able to build whatever we want, and anything we can think up: right on the kitchen table, here shortly.





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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  7. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

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    Maybe the real money value was higher 60 years ago?

    100 $ in 1948 is worth 38.400 $ in todays world.
    Average inflation makes a doubling of prices every 7. year.

    In 60 years, you have to double the price 8,5 times.

    Just a theory....
     
  8. ed haley

    ed haley New Friend

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    Chicago
    There is something to be said for beautiful engraving on a horn. As a little kid in the '30's I was very taken with my father's trombone.It was gold-plated and was beautifully engraved on the bell. I recall it had a pig playing a trombone, My father got the horn directly from H N White himself I suppose as a promotion. I really wanted to inherit that horn but because of the Depression and no work it had to be sold. But, I still recall the engraving and the pig.
     
  9. HSOtrumpet1

    HSOtrumpet1 Pianissimo User

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    One form of the V Raptor trumpet looks like almost exactly like the Marcinkiewicz Vermeer models, which I currently play! I wonder if the raptor is made to look like Marcinkiewicz or if it is the other way around.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll have to disagree. I think there are tremendous values at any of the market price points whether that be $500, $1200, $1800, $3500 or even over 10 grand.

    I will also take this opportunity to say that there are too many people that have no idea what an idea or development is worth and therefore are critical of anything that costs more than the basic assembly.
    You can think whatever you want and if you can develop a killer horn for $1800 then you can probably put all of the serious contenders out of business. Once you start seriously calculating the cost of business, you will see that those prices that you think are fair can only be reached if one steals development and ideas from the true innovators. There are enough stories about failed businesses due to lack of a sound business plan. If you think that you can do it better, than please do. We are all watching with baited breath!

    My take: you get what you pay for. The internet cheapskates have not changed that. They have just found interesting ways to make the average uninformed customer content with even lower quality.

    I detest the assumption that we are getting screwed by prices that allow manufacturers to support R+D, secure their future and dealers to be there for me next year. It is simply a generalization that does not hold water, but give the uninformed something to talk about.
     
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