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Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by AKtrumpet, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Satchmo Brecker

    Satchmo Brecker Piano User

    Jul 19, 2010
    Interesting article but mostly wrong IMHO. For starters, "the glue that held together our discourse and communication for centuries - the rules of respect, kindness, propriety". I can think of several groups of people who would absolutely disagree with that statement, for example African Americans, women, etc. whose voices were utterly suppressed by such so called respectful, kind discourse. Kids are moving towards inclusion, not exclusion, and their communication reflects that. You may like excluding people. I personally don't, even kids.

    I'd also say the author himself has a sense of entitlement, though of course he calls it deserved. Kings thought they were entitled to rule as they saw fit, including enslaving others. Professors of old (and new I'm sure) thought they had some corner on the market of ideas. Some did, most did not. Ask patent clerk Einstein. There's also the general culture to blame least since the 80's it's been gimme gimme gimme, by the adults! Of course their kids will reflect that. The current cult of personality doesn't help. So in that sense yes I agree there's a definite sense of entitlement among kids. But look who their example was. I think even this pendulum is swinging back a bit as kids see in the current financial crisis that maybe there's something more to life than "stuff". So sure a professor or veteran may be more likely to provide good info, but that doesn't mean s/he's automatically right. Some young punk may have the answer too.

    I guess it boils down to perspective. I find very little good in the "good old days" and would never want to go back...and that's coming from a white guy who's pretty well off. The direction kids are heading, inclusion, openness, constant communication with each other, is exactly the direction we need to head, as fast as possible, before some "old society US versus THEM" types blow the whole thing up.
  2. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    You may see inclusion. I see apathy and a lack of respect for societal norms.
  3. mgcoleman

    mgcoleman Mezzo Forte User

    Jun 22, 2010
    Too many people are adopting an ADHD-like approach to learning. Google it, right? Here's a little formula I have used before to discuss the difference between information management and making real use of all that information.

    (discrete piece of data #1) + (discrete piece of data #2) ... + (discrete piece of data #N) = information
    (information) + (context) = knowledge
    (knowledge) * (experience) = wisdom

    The point to be gained is that wisdom cannot be exclusive of any of the relevant data (listen, keep an open mind), it must be in context (a hammer is a great tool, but sucks for brushing your teeth - context) and there is some obvious experience/insight required to gain the big benefit (note I switch from addition in the first 2 equations to multiplication in last equation...the more experience, the greater the wisdom).
    gzent likes this.
  4. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    I agree with this.

    Unfortunately it is preaching to the choir with an illiterate congregation. They don't understand what they don't understand. I once came across a news article saying that "people's incompetence masks their ability to see their incompetence" - The Anosognosic's Dilemma: Something's Wrong but You'll Never Know What It Is (Part 1) -
  5. A.N.A. Mendez

    A.N.A. Mendez Utimate User

    Oct 25, 2005
    Sunny Ca.

    I loved that article in the NYT, have had this very discussion with my wife. I have to share this screen shot I noticed while reading it... I swear it was exactly like this..... :-?

    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
  6. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    I know it’s new agey and fiction, but The Celestine Prophecy has some good writing worth quoting:

    “[W]e humans seek to outwit and control each other not just because of some tangible goal in the outside world that we’re to achieve, but because of a lift we get psychologically. That is the reason we see so many irrational conflicts in the world both at the individual level and at the level of nations.”

    So yeah, I've got some mouthpieces and horns that I like--a fact that becomes my opinion. I like a lyrical approach to the trumpet--opinion too. I like blasting violists in the back of their heads but like to taper down to inaudible. That's my opinion as well. There can never be a perfect approach to the trumpet except the one we find for ourselves, and it is a long journey. In my opinion, anyway.

    I argue with friends about religion and politics (not on this forum), and we exchange opinions.

    Facts are what come out of our bell.
  7. mgcoleman

    mgcoleman Mezzo Forte User

    Jun 22, 2010
  8. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    While I liked his style of literary eloquence, what did it say that was so important. Seemingly the conclusion was that he is now "jumping ship" to become a "hermit", rather than "flow with the show". To abandon a child in any respect, even not your own, IMO is not different than what another would expect you to do with your own child. Doesn't this denigrate REAL teachers? By no means would I consider myself a pro musican or a great teacher of music, but I do feel I contribute towards such goals for all others and too, myself. Life has the propensity for good and bad and the line between is unknown.
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
  10. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    After these posts I feel I should clarify my position, instead of just "agree":

    I agree with the words the author is saying. I don't agree with how he reacts to the situation, though. Yes, the internet is not perfect, and there is misinformation. This can be detrimental, or it can be thought of as an opportunity to learn how to sift through the BS and get to the core of the matter; who to trust, and when to admit you're wrong. While this is not what the forum was necessarily intended for, sometimes it can be a good lesson in realizing your own self and character. Personally, I try to research thoroughly before typing. It is my thoughts that if I try to at least substantiate my views/ideas, that perhaps this will help others to do the same, or at least realise that I have truly good intent.

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