B# Augmented Triad...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpet blower88, Oct 3, 2005.

  1. trumpetpimp

    trumpetpimp Piano User

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    Dec 6, 2003
    Toronto
    Keep in mind that this question was probably designed by your teacher to make sure the class understands not only augmented triads but enharmonics. It's pure theory and completely impractical. F triple-sharp is the correct fifth but it doesn't mean anything in real life and your teacher must realise that.
     
  2. Clarino

    Clarino Mezzo Piano User

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    Sheffield, England, UK
    It seems a little silly to me, so I would have put C, E, G# with a footnote explining that I used the Enharmonic equivalent for the notes which makes much more sense musically. :bleah:
     
  3. Bob Odneal

    Bob Odneal Pianissimo User

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    Jan 5, 2004
    Houston, Texas
    The answer is,

    Shut up you jive [email protected]@ professor you!

    Optional answer-- a ruptured fifth.

    Professor Odneal
    B.M.E. M.A. G.O.M.F. (get out my face)
     
  4. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

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    You are completely right...but sometimes we must study the theroetical to gain a more practical knowledge of the real. Things that exist on a purley hypothetical sense but still require logical thought processes bring us to a better understanding of that which does exist, and help us to apply newly acquired knowledge in strange or unfamiliar settings; education/learning!
     
  5. trumpetpimp

    trumpetpimp Piano User

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    Toronto
    Oh, I know. I just wanted him to know that the question was just a test built into the assignment and not to get too hung up on it.
     
  6. Norm

    Norm New Friend

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    Oregon USA
    David...Do you have anything to report from your teacher? I hope you keep us informed as to his "answer." :-?

    This occured to me: Write out a staff, or use manuscrpt paper, and put it in the key of G. This of course will give you an F#. So you draw in the notes B# - Dx - Fx. Since the F is already sharpened by the key signature, this will give you an enharmonic G#. Hmmm....??? :?:

    Norm
     
  7. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

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    Norm- No, unfortunately not. Double sharp would not put you far enough away. Remember that to alter an interval, you must make it different than it should be based upon the key of the note you are comparing it to. For example, to make a major third above an E, you must place a G# regardless of your key signature, because: a. G# is in the key signature of E major; b. because of the number of half steps contained in the interval. (It's a mathematical formula: this many half steps creates this interval). B# is the enharmonic equivilant of a C and an FX is the enharmonic equivilant of a G (A P5 above B#). The interval of an augmented fifth is one half step greater than a perfect fifth. A triad is augmented when the fifth is not a P5 but an Aug 5 above its root. In this case you are limited to raising the ceiling, or expanding the interval by making the fifth farther away by 1/2 step, to what would sound an Aug 5 above B#: F#X. 88 was completely correct in his spelling.
     
  8. trumpet blower88

    trumpet blower88 Mezzo Piano User

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    Yes, I have an answer from my teacher... But I'm afraid you all are not going to like it.

    We found the same problem with the "c flat diminished triad", becuase of the enharmonics and what not, it would end up haveing a triple flat. Basicaly, he told us all that he never realized that these chords would end up with triple sharps and flats, this was the first time he has assigned this assignment and its the first time he himself has ever seen a B sharp augmented or c flat diminished. Basicaly, he didn't know the answer either. So we took a short break in class today to go to the computer and try the whole finale idea, we notated a a B augmented triad, and then had the computer transpose it up a half step and it came up with a "#X" just like Tpter1 mentioned. We also tried it with the c flat dimminished and it came up with a "bbb".

    So, I don't know if there really is a correct way to answer this, he gave us free points on the worksheet aslong as we attempted it, so thats cool I guess.

    This also brougt up a fun litle activity we can do for extra credit. If we can find a piece of literature that uses either a B sharp augmented, or c flatt dimminished we get 50 extra credit points!!! Does anyone happen to know of a piece with one of these chords? I really doubt any modern day music would use it, but it might be possible for some baroque era music or something like that uses the bassline with the chord symbols such as "5/3" or "6/4", because notated like that, theres no reason to notate a triple shap or flat, so it's entirely possible. I've looked though a few books of lead sheets and whatnot that I have that use the chord symbols like that, I've yet to find what I'm looking for...
     
  9. bandman

    bandman Forte User

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    This is scary -- how the heck did he assign you all a worksheet that he had obviously not looked at in advance, and if he did look at it in advance how the heck did he give it to you prior to his learning the answer?

    I admire him for saying he didn't know the answer, but I find no educational credibility in giving assignments if the teacher does not know the answer.

    We do so many stupid things in education, and teachers often are often given a bad reputation as a whole for not being competent. I'm sure that 99% of the time your teacher does a good job with this class, but in this case he really blew it
     
  10. rdt1959

    rdt1959 Pianissimo User

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    There may not be much educational credibility from trumpet blower 88's class, but I sure learned a lot from this thread! :D :D
     

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