Bach 72: Having a hard time projecting in the marching band section

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by centerofaTONEment, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    I think EVERYONE here has the right idea ....
    Feedback... have you asked someone to listen to you playing from a distance when you are playing the other horns
    The 72 .... dark or not if a lead player can crank over a jazz band using the 72.. well you should be able to as well...
    Equipment Issue ...have you checked your horn for
    Is it clean ? a dirty horn would play like you state
    Are the Valves aligned? same thing... if your felts are worn or got wet and threw off you alignment you aren't going to get any zing
    Are your corks in good shape ...
    Did you dent or mess your leadpipe or receiver?
    Is your mouthpiece in good shape and does it line up with your receiver okay? Sometimes receiver get damaged to. Some mouthpieces match up better with certain horns too ... not likely but a possibility.
    You might take it in to a tech for an evaluation.
    if you have an instructor ... I would ask to use one lesson to go over this and see what he tells you ... be prepared to hear the horn is fine.... you just need to practice.
    keep us posted
  2. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    Is blowing louder really the answer? Can't you blow louder but blow with a difused sound so that it spreads and is fairly ineffective? And if you are doing that, won't you just overblow to compensate and wear yourself out, accomplishing nothing? It would seem to me that the priority would be projection, then focus and that would need of course to be backed up by power.
  3. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    Technically... yes you are absolutely correct
    sometimes I think the forum goes with their "gut" .... the kid may just need to get a little cocky and be all the trumpet player he can be
  4. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    Jul 1, 2011

    Point taken however...

    My feeling is that the average trumpet player has weak volume. If the guy is in marching band? Stands to reason it is some high school or collegiate setting. A young person in other words. Generally these type do not have a concept just how much power a trumpet player needs not only the project but to DOMINATE and LEAD the band.

    I was that way once. Fortunately for me I had fellow musicians who wouldn't allow me to play weakly.

    Volume and endurance are part of the equation too. A weak trumpet player will burn out his chops from loud volume more quickly than a pro.

    A professional has more levels of musical sounding volume than the amateur.

    The professional jazz or R & B trumpet player has more, maybe even far more levels of volume than his more "legit" sounding classical peer.
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I kind of agree with Local357. The problem is not the horn, it is the players approach.

    That being said, I do not believe that balance on the playing field is achieved by upping the ante. When I listen to fine military bands, I do not hear 50 pubescent brats trying to crack their bells. I hear a couple of trumpet and cornet (flugelhorn) parts with a full, mature sound. It is "loud enough" for the sound to carry well and offer good sonic effect when choreographed.

    Telling this thread owner to "BLAST" will not make them heard. The Bach has great core and projection and if it can't be heard, then the player is simply too wimpy for the job AND the band is just blasting away. The bit about the SilverFlair being better is BS. It is a lighter horn and perhaps the PLAYER can hear themselves better, that comes at the cost of less projection however.

    A mouthpiece can't fix a wimpy concept. That is something best left to a teacher. Musical balance however is the directors job. There are too many school bands that have a really crappy concept based only on loud. Pretty stupid in my book.
  6. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    Which is why I always hated marching band and choose a Cal State music program that did not have a marching band...
    I hate the delay across the field
    I hate the intonation
    I hate the horn boucing around on my lip
    I hate looking at some kid playing clarinet in a futile effort to blend in...
    I don't even like the music much to be honest with you ... we are talking half time football game show music.
    I still think the horn has a problem.. like dirt.
    If we were talking military band music I don't think the OP would have even brought this up ... unless of course he has a very dirty instrument or needs a valve alighment.
    My experience has always been.. I was rewarded for my endurance and my ability to crank the hell out of my horn in that venue .... and when the full moon passed I was free of that hideous and required duty.
  7. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    If I had a dime for every chart I played in school too loud, I'd be swearing up and down that I should have asked for quarters. I can't name one marching band player from those days who didn't overblow. Even the drum major overblows. It took me years to realize that overblowing BLOWS.

    I sat next to a young Bach 72 player during the summer at an outdoor big band gig, and his sound was brilliant, just a great balanced lead sound. It's likely the most versatile bell Bach produces. But give that horn to Chet Baker, dark city. And 357, I don't know what Band Planet you live on where brass players sound like wimps and the flute players overwhelm the band. Certainly not my experience.

  8. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
  9. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    Jul 1, 2011

    Hear hear! Marching band generally sucks. Granted Future Corps being one of the the exceptions here:

    Future Corps - Everybody Loves The Blues (August 1998) - YouTube.

    1. Marching band usually makes poor chumps out of young musicians. Each usually playing second fiddle to the big dumb football players.

    In the long run we may have the advantage: Taking our skills in music many decades past the point where the football players got cut from the game. They often being overweight by age forty. Suffering from arthritis caused by ancient injuries on the gridiron.

    The simple fact of school system politics is that football is king. Explaining to the typical school superintendent the importance of a bassoon or a Sammy Nestico big band chart being futile.

    2. Someone talked about over blowing a brass instrument on the field. In a way this might be the correct thing for a young trumpet player to do. It isn't usually like the quality of "music" could suffer. Its already been made clear that M/band music SUCKS.

    And since it is well proven that young brass players tend to be shy and hold back support? Well use the football field to gain sound volume, endurance, confidence and control.

    Compare it to a young baseball pitcher: Coaches no longer teach the breaking ball to the young pitcher. Instead they want him to throw heat. Accuracy at first not even being all that important.

    So while in marching band and on the field?

    Throw heat. It isn't like the music could suffer. It's awful anyway.

    Save and except for Future Corps lol
  10. PatMurphy

    PatMurphy Pianissimo User

    Aug 9, 2009
    Cherry Hill NJ
    I have a 72 that I usually play with a monette b2. However NOBODY! cuts this old bear when I switch to a shallow big bore mouthpice that I use just for noisy nightclubs, and guitars that think they are cute. I would not want to play at that volume and tone all time. You lose the nice pleasant rounded tone of the horn when I use the Monette or the 3-C that I was using. The "blow me down" MPC sounds like a Harry James imposter on steroids.
    The suggestion that you concentrate on playing to spot in the distance works. I try to blow down the back wall of there I am playing. So far only plaster cracks

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