Bach "issues" question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Nerf, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Nerf

    Nerf Piano User

    256
    84
    Dec 7, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    I've read on here that there was a strike at the Bach plant some time ago. I've also read on other sites (yes...I must confess that I DO read other trumpet related sites) that after Tedd Waggoner "took over" that things have improved. One site has said that the new Bach trumpets coming out of the factory now are better than anything that's ever come out before. I have to say that I haven't played a BRAND NEW Bach trumpet in a VERY long time that I have nothing to say either way about that last statement.

    So...can someone (anyone) fill me in on what happened?! PLEASE no "Bach bashers"!! I'm looking for honest opinions & facts. Maybe I've just been under a HUGE ROCK or something & missed it all.

    Thanks!
     
  2. GoodMusic@PA

    [email protected] Piano User

    291
    1
    Aug 7, 2008
    Yes, new the new era of bach is called True Bach. I don't know if they are the best bach strads ever made but they are still very good. One of the biggest changes you can find is that the curve of the bell is bigger and more precise than the older ones. Before the strike, more people liked bach than they do now, but during the strike, the availability of bach trumpets were low so not a lot of people had access to one, making more people find out about the other brands, therefore criticizing bach trumpets to be bad when the only reason is that they couldn't get their hands on one at the time, i'm not saying everyone, but most people did that.
    I have always like bach.

    I don't know but, I'm sure Rushstucky(this might be the wrong username) will post on this thread, he's a bach instrumentalist.:-)
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,616
    7,964
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Nerf,
    in spite of all of the bashing that has been going on for years, the Strad Bb is still considered a fine trumpet. You have always had to play several and pick the one that you liked, but even the "lesser" ones were still more than just OK.

    I have not played hundreds of the newer models, but every Bb that I have, has been decent. I am sure that that is due to Teds dedication and talent. I am not sure that I would say better than ever, I have played some fantastic older models that are at the very top of my list.

    I still have never played a factory Bach C that is acceptably in tune. The competition is doing a better job here! All of the new piccs that I have played have been terrible in intonation and sound - even the ones shown at the various fairs.
     
  4. 65Strad

    65Strad Pianissimo User

    166
    10
    Aug 28, 2005
    Toms River, New Jersey
    Hi Nerf,

    I have often made that statement about the horns being better than they have in a long time. I have vintage Bach's as well as a new Chicago C and VBS 196 picc. The Chicago for me is an amazingly resonant and beautiful sounding instrument as is the picc and other new Bachs that I have played when I stop in Dillon music. My favorite Bb for playability/sound is the NY#7 197 Bb. Best playing Bb that I have ever played. Other have expressed a similiar opinion on it's playability, although I don't care for the gold plated slides on the silver plated body, but that's asthetic and just my opinion.

    Tedd is at the helm and he takes his business and Bach player's satisfaction with the products to heart as I will explain from first hand experience. I made a phone inquiry to Conn-Selmer about a year and a half ago and the receptionist indicated that someone would call me back within the week. At the end of the week an nice guy called to answer a couple of questions that I had in a very good natured and unhurried way. He obviously wanted to make sure that that this long time Bach customer was satisfied, and unexpectedly asked my address and sent me a replacement 2nd valve slide when I casually mentioned that it had a minor blemish on the pull nib wondering if he thought it could be buffed smooth without me even considering replacing it. By the way, the persons name is Tedd Waggoner. I own no stock in the company, just their products. It amazes me that someone that has the responsibility, time constraints and jam packed schedule as Tedd took the time to personally call an unknown Bach Strad customer to answer a couple of questions, let alone send and new replacement part when it wasn't necessary or expected.

    Some worn out tooling has been replaced, the bell bows are very faithful to the early Elkhart and Mt Vernons D shape vs the rounder bow of later prestrike horns. Build quality/valves and sound are first rate. Couple the fact that the head of Bach Conn-Selmer operations took the time to call someone he knew nothing about other that they were a customer means something to me. Being that the Strad's are still made in the USA is just icing. Try them and judge for your self. I couldn't be happier.

    I readily defer to Rowuk's expertise on almost all of his very well expressed points of view, and I expect that he is a much more accomplished player than I, however you have to play these horns and see and hear how you sound. My Chicago C has almost spot on intonation, and the new picc for me has far better intonation, valves and tone quality than the currently accepted "standard". I just can't sound good on Yamaha's or Monett's or even get an unstuffy sound on a Schilke P5-4 and those are obviously first rate instruments.

    As Rowuk has said, play before you pay for any horn. If you like your Bach's I expect that you will be pleased with what you experience. For me, I have yet to play a trumpet that has a sound/tone that I find more pleasing than a Bach for my taste.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  5. forrest

    forrest Piano User

    303
    8
    Aug 14, 2007
    St Louis MO
    In the past 4 months I've purchased 3 new Bachs - a Chicago C, a ML 180-37 in silver and a step bore (MLV) 180-72 with the 25 leadpipe instead of the 43. I've read, as you have, all about that pre-strike and post-strike stuff, and the most important thing to me is how the horns play, with appearance (fit/finish) second.

    All 3 play great, and fit/finish is fine as well. One second valve slide was a little tighter than I would have liked, but being a new horn, that's to be expected. Valves and intonation are dandy.

    I have no qualms about my new Bachs. Actually, I'm thrilled with them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  6. Rushtucky

    Rushtucky Pianissimo User

    242
    2
    Sep 15, 2008
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    To answer some questions:

    Yes, Bach had a strike a couple of years ago and it caused some internal problems.

    Yes, there was at first some inconsistancy in product, but this was adressed and corrected immediately.

    Yes, Bach reorganized and revamped it's factory.

    I was in Elkhart last week and ordered a new Strad and went through the factory...looked great.

    The great news...Bach is reformating it's Strads to those of the early 70's and 80's. The bell bows are what they used to be. The tone was really rich. Quality control at Bach is almost as if Vincent Bach was in the factory himself. The new Strads are a great sounding horn. I do recommend adding heavy caps and using a megatone mouthpiece, Bach of course (personal perference).

    If you have the opportunity to attend the ITG Conference coming up, check out their display and try for yourself. Hopefully I will meet some of you.

    As for the Chicago C has great intonation. I guess European ears hear tones differently.

    We all have our preference in trumpets and many will live and die by a brand. There has been much strides made in instruments over the years and this will continue. But it all comes down to the trumpet player themself. I have heard musicians take a beginner horn and make it sound great, with some effort. However, there is no comparison to the quality of a professional trumpet, no matter what the brand, with some exceptions. As with many, I have my preference, but am always willing and love to try another horn and see what I can make it do.

    Bach is, as of right now, pretty much the standard. The majority, but not all (I am trying to be politically correct) tend to use Bach instruments. Now granted, this is mainly due to marketing. Once they get the TR300 into the hands of a student, they pretty much get their hooks into them. Yes, the TR200 has a few more whistles and bells, but I encourage a serious student to by-pass the TR200 and get a Strad.

    One of the biggest issues that is developing, and this is where you all need to come into play with your students, is the influx of instruments from China and now India. There are a lot of knock offs and some use names that are close to quality brands, that just are JUNK! Unfortunately parents not knowing the difference will lean toward price and the "add-ons" featured on the internet.
     
  7. GoodMusic@PA

    [email protected] Piano User

    291
    1
    Aug 7, 2008
    I knew Rushtucky would come, yes, some of these posts prove that Bach is STILL a very good brand. I love Bachs but just don't get why I don't like Yamaha, I tried many before(used and some new) but the valves on all of those didn't even come close to my bach(maybe some inconsistency in the yamaha factory-every factory has them- or my bad luck). So Nerf, if you want a Bach, go try one, if you like it, buy it, if you don't just keep looking. Also, I heard that DiBella's music is having a show with over 60 Bach strads and are selling them for a low price. I don't know where it is, but you might want to give it a shot if it is close to you.
     
  8. Nerf

    Nerf Piano User

    256
    84
    Dec 7, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Hey guys thanks for the input. I feel, though, that I need to "qualify" my intentions for starting this thread. So here goes...

    First off I love Bachs! As you can see from my signature I own 3. (well...2.5 since the Mt. Vernon is my wife's that she lets me "borrow") The only reason I have the other brands is because I came from a police officer's home where that was the only income we had. My 1982 Strad was bought by my sister after she got her 1st "real teaching job" when I was in the 6th grade. My 1973 Bach was bought at a considerably good deal my freshman year in HS to march with. My Flugel was a gift from my parents my sophomore year & was a complete surprise to me. I think they got a pretty good deal on it, too. My picc & C I bought myself used & got really good deals on them when I was in college. I worked all summer & saved all my "lunch money" to get them. They've been very good horns (especially my picc).

    Now...the reason I originally asked this question is because of all the "stuff" everyone hears about Bachs. I agree with Robin that you have to play several & find "yours" in the bunch. It's been SO long since I played a "brand new horn" that I've forgotten what that "new car smell" is like. ;-) The only ITG conference I went to was in 1991 at LSU. You couldn't even get CLOSE to the Bach table then! That's also when Monette was "new" (sort of) & EVERYONE wanted to play them. The Lawler table was right next to Monette so it's kind of a surprise I was even able to hear anything while I was trying/buying my C! :roll: When I get back from this deployment I HOPE to be able to make it to ITG this year for a couple days. I have a "miltary commitment" that keeps me from being able to go to the whole conference. :-( Judging from the "ITG 2009!" thread on here I didn't know that Bach was going to be there. I thought that was kinda odd & wondered if it was a typo by anyone. If I DO get "permission" to go from "The Boss" (my wife) I REALLY look forward to going!! It'll be the 1st "trumpet geek" thing I've done since I graduated from college.

    So...let's say that I DO get to go. What's the "agenda"? I'd REALLY like to give the 229/25H a "test drive" since there's so much good talk about it out there. I'd also like to give the 189XL a go & see how it is. That's not to mention that Chicago & Philly models. My trumpet professor in college played a 239/25S (if my memory serves me correctly) & I like that one, too. The only question I have is if there's a model similar to the 229/25H that comes with a reversed leadpipe? My Lawler has a reversed pipe & I like that a lot. I'm not "dead set" on it, though. I know the way the horn plays/feels & the tone coming out of the bell are the most important aspects to look for. I also realize that when you find it YOUR trumpet will grab you & not let go! Ya know?!

    Okay...I think I've rambled on enough. I just felt like I needed to clarify some things from my original post. Again, thanks for the honest input. Hopefully one day I'll actually get to tour the Bach factory! I think I could die a happy man then! :cool:
     
  9. brem

    brem Mezzo Forte User

    831
    5
    Sep 13, 2007
    Quebec City, QC, Canada
    I was under the impression that the strike was still going on and the factory was being run with scabs...
     

Share This Page