Beginners' starting range.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Mambo King, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    633
    240
    Jul 1, 2011

    I must always agree with and acknowledge those who agree with me. Can not resist the temptation to whole heartedly concur. No yet anyway...But to address your question



    No that wasn't my idea though I can easily see how one would make the inference. In fact I don't even know what the percentage of people is who can protrude their lower jaw is. My best guess is that most people can do this and yet would still fail at Stevens-Costello.

    What makes the Stevens System so woefully inadequate for the great majority of trumpet players is that the chop setting requires an extremely supple upper lip texture. An almost "weak" looking lip which paradoxically allows the easiest production of unlimited upper range register. Most trumpet players do not have this kind of supple flesh where it is needed in order to pull off Stevens-Costello.

    What is my proof that this i so? Its a theory but never the less is almost definitely the cause.

    Essentially what happens in the protruded jaw (or "forward jaw") trumpet player is that the air passes through the upper lip at an area more near the outside of his lips. Or at a point deeper within the mouthpiece. Conversely in the receded jaw trumpet player the air passes over the upper lip more inside his mouth and LESS inside the mouthpiece.

    Typically the inner gum membrane inside the upper lip of the receded jaw trumpet player get pushed to vibrate by the air.The tone from this sort of chop setting is usually excellent but the production of range far more limited. Although Reinhardt noticed that these kinds of players could "get a huge volume of tone" by playing this way...
     
  2. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    1,094
    329
    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    The Jazz and commercial types of music described earlier in this thread did not exist at the time of Arban and there wasn't anything to allow one in J.B. Arban's position to foresee that they ever would. Saying that the book is not useful for such playing is like saying riding a horse doesn't help one much to drive a car.

    Arban played and taught cornet and likely used deep V-cups most of the time, cultivating a specific sound that does not lend itself to extreme high register playing. I strongly doubt that even the players gifted for it were encouraged to pursue it; to my knowledge, it was perceived as distasteful in these times. Things change. H. Clarke on his part had some choice words to say about the music called "Jazz."

    The Arban method contains pretty much everything that one needs to be a well rounded player, except what is specific to styles that came into existence after it was published. How is that a weakness of the method?

    Wilmer Wise -artist in residence here with an exemplary career- claimed once in a TM thread that, by pretty much end of high school, he had Arban "under his fingers" as did his buddy Lee Morgan. I wonder if he would claim that the book is useless. Wynton Marsalis has studied it extensively, as demonstrated by his recordings of the show pieces that are at the end of the book. What would he have to say about it?

    A method is a tool, no more, no less. It gives what one takes out of it. Skilled teachers with experience of playing and teaching are obviously helpful at drawing from a method what a student needs. Arban is a great multi-function tool that meets most needs of beginning and advancing players, that is one reason it is so widely used. But any method can be boring, or even inappropriate, if its use makes it so.

    Certainly, if a teacher prescribes endless successions of Arban exercises that have no other purpose than overcoming a very specific difficulty, one can get bored. It could happen too if one would limit practice to Clarke technical studie, which are not especially exciting either. That would be a teacher problem, not a method problem. Similarly, there is no reason to use only one method. In fact, I don't see why any teacher would limit the tools at his/her disposal.
     
  3. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    60
    12,460
    7,037
    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    I like the Heimat tone concept of Gerald Webster.

    Gerald Webster discovered that when we play a medium high, medium low, medium loud tone on our mouthpiece first thing in the day, the same pitch will come out, our personal "home" tone, or Heimat tone (he discovered this while touring with Edward Tarr in Germany, thus the name). "Personal" means just that, each person has his/her own Heimat tone -- there is no "good," "bad" or "ideal."

    Some players start their warm-ups on c below the staff, then work their way upwards, but that makes any thing above c below the staff a more or less a high note. Rather than starting in the lower register, consider starting at your personal Heimat tone and expanding from there. That gives us the feeling of having more low tones to play, and fewer high ones to struggle for.

    A second item to consider is that sometimes, when notes just "cut out" at a certain point (not getting wimpier, but simply producing no sound) it can result from a player forming the embouchure after the mouthpiece is placed on the lips. The lips then get "trapped" by the mouthpiece and the aperture is unable to get small enough. Try forming your embouchure first, then add the mouthpiece.

    Hard to diagnose things over the internet, so the best we can do is make suggestions for you to experiment with.

    Have fun!
     
  4. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    3,462
    2,727
    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    How do you account, then, for a warm up that begins with double pedal C and goes up to anywhere from G above high C to double high C, because that's what I do?
     
  5. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    1,094
    329
    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    Then what you do is certainly good. VB said he liked the concept, not that it was some universal fail safe answer, or that other ways won't work.

    Teaching trumpet well might be more difficult than playing it well. One size/method does not fit all, not suprisingly.

    The heimat tone concept works for Gerald Webster, Edward Tarr, VB and probably many others. What you do works for you. If you don't believe it's beneficial, you don't have to try it. Considering what you obtain, it does not sound like you have much of a sound production problem anyway. That, or the fact that it won't work for some does not make the Heimat tone concept invalid.
     
  6. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    3,462
    2,727
    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    That was a question, Philippe, not a challenge to anyone's comments or experiences.
     
  7. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    1,094
    329
    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    Fair enough. Sorry for the reaction. I'm afraid I got too used to the confrontational tone that is cultivated by a few on TM and affects my general perception. I think I might have provided a manner of answer, although it's not much of one: whatever you do, it seems to work well. Share more if you'd like, we might benefit from it :-)
     
  8. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    3,462
    2,727
    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    No problem. I was just curious how that might relate to a concept of a Heimat tone, since, seemingly, there isn't one in my warm-up.
    More specifically, my warm-up and first exercises each day are from Jeff Smiley's, "The Balanced Embouchure".

    BTW - I got yer Heimat tone. :evil: Heimattöne Kapelle: Rosamunde Polka - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
  9. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    60
    12,460
    7,037
    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    "Beginners' starting range" is the thread title, and I doubt too many beginners have from double pedal C to high C to choose from.
     
  10. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    3,462
    2,727
    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    Yes. My question, though, was relating directly to your explanation of a "Heimat tone", which I took to be a general concept, not tied to any particular skill level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012

Share This Page