Beware Of Robert Rowe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by dmc123, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

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    I suspect this has gotten all the attention it's worth. I've no doubt that Robert has seen it and has made a choice to not reply.

    Tom
     
  2. BigDub

    BigDub Fortissimo User

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    Ebay is NOT the most reliable place to buy anything, still there are certain systems set up to provide minimum protection. Why anyone would reduce their own safety could be an even MORE important facet of this thread.

    SO, before any of you pass judgement, claim fraud or anything else, think about America - innocent until PROVEN guilty. We have NO RECORD of any communication before, during or after the transaction only one guys (late) claim.

    I will go further than the thread owner on one point however:

    It is just plain IGNORANT to buy from ebay based on blind faith. Beware of ANYTHING that you don't play before you pay. If we get more piling on, I will shut the thread down (no censureship, but enough has been speculated on).

    My definition of IGNORant is: choosing to IGNORE common sense, established advice, secure methods of dealing with a situation. I got a PM that assumed that ignorant was rude and the same as "STUPID"(not capable of making a qualified decision). The two are not mutually exclusive but I NEVER use one instead of the other.[/QUOTE]

    Rowuk:
    You have some very valid points here, but I understood he went OFF eBay to do business with Robert elsewhere, which actually is even more ignorant in lieu of his results. All in all, sir, you have a way of bringing reality to things. Thanks.
     
    tobylou8 likes this.
  3. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    Here's a semantic issue that's one of my pet peeves...people aren't innocent until proven guilty. If they actually did what is alleged, they are guilty whether proven so or not. They are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
     
  4. BigDub

    BigDub Fortissimo User

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    Absolutely. Good one, Dale. This is like the question: what was the tallest mountain peak before Everest was discovered?
    Of course, Everest, but some people have a problem with that one, too. It was there all along, and no less tall than after it was discovered.
     
  5. dr-pepp

    dr-pepp Pianissimo User

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    I see these "I got ripped off by xxxx" threads here and on other sites. Like other folks, I can't help being drawn into reading the details, particularly if I know one of the parties involved. I have bought and sold literally hundreds (if not a couple of thousand) horns in the past 15 years. I have 100% positive feedback on ebay as well as hundreds of satisfied customers from my website. BUT, there have been a few that I could not make happy. No matter how hard I tried, they were convinced that I was a crook and tried to rip them off. I'm lucky that there have only been a few and none of these unhappy customers went on an on-line site to vent. Someday that may happen and I'll be faced with a decision of how to respond. In a career in public life, I've never written a letter to the editor telling a different side of the story that appeared in print. Not because there were not corrections needed, but because I heard some advice years ago that all that would do would draw more attention to the original story (which others might not have seen) and just continue focus on the original incorrect fact. Since there are many other parties that can keep the discussion going in an on-line forum, I'm not sure that avoiding comment would be the best strategy to let the issue "blow over"

    One thing that does not ring true from the OP is that having had Charlie Melk work on dozens of horns for me (just got 4 back and still have 3 in his shop), I'd not expect him to get involved in contacting a seller about parts for a horn he sold. Not really sure what to make of this entire thread. RR is a quirky guy. No doubt about it. We have no business relationship and I can't recall the last item I bought from him, but nothing I've read here or in other forums would change my very positive impression of a number of transactions with him, both large and small.
     
  6. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Dale, you kinda cut your statement short. It should read: "... proven guilty in a Court of Law". Say whatever, even when proven innocent in a Court of Law, many of the community believe otherwise and will shun or ostracise the subject to the extent of "go ye hither away from me and tarry no longer about me".
     
  7. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    Yeah Ed, but I don't believe anyone is actually "proven innocent" in a court of law - they're found to be "not guilty", which means the lawyers couldn't convince the jury of guilt. I've been on a jury where most of us felt the defendant was as guilty as sin, but the State didn't have enough evidence to prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. You're right, though, no matter what the outcome, the accused still has a stigma attached in many peoples' minds.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Gotta love jury duty!!! :roll:
     
  9. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Dale, my quote actually was a lover's break up with a cheater. Yeah, the jury foreperson returns a verdict of Guilty or Not Guilty, the Judgement in the latter as reads "Aquitted of the charges laid against ..." and thus the accused is Free and cannot ever after be subject to double jeopardy. True, sometimes such is the consequence of the State not having sufficient evidence or having not presenting such well enough, but in criminal cases so often there is a guilty verdict only because the appointed public defender could not (or would not) adequate defend. I've never served on a jury, but I've been the arresting officer in 582 cases upon which 402 were convicted which in my personal opinion the convictions should have been 39 less. Indigents often don't have the knowledge or funds to appeal.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Dale, a very good point indeed. Would that also apply to the thread owner too? We only would "presume" that the story is true until proven otherwise?

    I personally think that something like this is best handled by going along for the ride. The "Pseudoindignance" without knowing either party really is out of place. I mean we all know that sugar is bad for you too but how many drink pop before or during playing? Ever criticized anyone for that?

    It is not "bad" to not be able to intelligently comment!
     

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