Boosey & hawkes serial numbers

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by velcrohead, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. velcrohead

    velcrohead New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2013
    :-o I have a problem with the boosey & Hawkes serial numbers, some go back to pre 1930's. So, how could this be??? Because this is before they got together. I know that you can have a besson, boosey, or hawkes, but how can you have a pre 1930's Boosey & Hawkes?
    Can someone please clarify this for me, because I have four and five digit instruments that are said to pre date boosey and hawkes getting together but have boosey and hawkes clearly printed or engraved on them..... Could they be fakes???
     
  2. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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  3. velcrohead

    velcrohead New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2013
    Thanks stuart for this thread, but this just adds to the confusion. I had seen this document before and wondered how it could be right. I have a cornet with a long bell with the serial number 18153. So, according to the serial number listing it dates to 1873 - 1874 and has clearly written on it Boosey & Hawkes. Now if they did not get together until 1930, how does this make sense? I am really confused.... The other Boosey & Hawkes trumpets and cornets I have date to 1947, 1952, 1967, 1969 and 1970.
     
  4. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    The horniman lists are from the shop books they have in their collection and are pretty reliable, the posibility is the last digit may be missing which would put the year as 1952.

    The other possibility it is an Indian fake, the pocket cornets I have seen all have the same serial no and the build quality is very poor.

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  5. velcrohead

    velcrohead New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2013
    I have considered both of these options and have shown the instrument to colleagues who cannot see any evidence of a missing digit and the exterior & interior look and facets of the instrument point to it being a old instrument and solidly made, so it is a bit of a mystery to all of us, and we can't work it out.
    If this is a copy, it is a pretty good one, but the valve action dates it as not modern at all.
    Do you have any more suggestions, because I have five other boosey and hawkes trumpets or cornets and this instrument appears to pre date them all, and one is from the 1950's.
     
  6. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    Where is the serial no located? if it is in the valve block the possibility that a new bell has been fitted some time.

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  7. velcrohead

    velcrohead New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2013
    The serial number is on the bell near the valves ( where most boosey and hawkes serial numbers are) and I thought that if the numbers were anywhere else it could be a thow together job or a mis interpretation of valve set number vs serial number, but this has no other numbers on it except a 1 on the first valve. There is no way this should exist. Plus it says boosey and hawkes ltd in very old engraved writing, and there are no scratches near the numbers to indicate a number replacement or forgery.
    I am at a loss.
     
  8. velcrohead

    velcrohead New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2013
    The only conclusion we can come up with is that the serial number was incorrectly stamped or was stamped with a number missing. Would this make the instrument less or more valuable?
     
  9. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Could you post pictures? Particularly close-ups of the valve block front and back, and bell engravings. That might help ring bells with those of us who learnt our trade (many years ago) on B&H instruments of the 1930-50 era.

    Also an extracted valve if possible. These can tie dates quite accurately.
     
  10. velcrohead

    velcrohead New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2013
    image.jpg image.jpg
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