Bottom sprung / Top sprung Valves

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet Dreamer, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. Moshe Mizrachi

    Moshe Mizrachi Pianissimo User

    Feb 17, 2010
    I once read that some company switched from one type of valve to the other type of valve, I don't remember which way, in order to save a lot of weight in the instrument.
    I had thought that the statement was made at the Conn Loyalist Web site, but a search there shows that I am apparently wrong about that being the company.

    I did find this old quote from Old Lou...

    "If one considers that the bottom spring valves are usually lighter in weight that their top sprung cousins, because they have no spring cage to hold the valve spring in place, they 'should be' lighter and faster."

  2. Buck with a Bach

    Buck with a Bach Fortissimo User

    Dec 29, 2009
    Canton, Ohio
    TD, So far so good. The C's have fairly good sound to them, intonation is spot on. They are light weight, and so far, no valve problems. We've used them at church three times so far, and no complaints from the peanut gallery. I've used the flugle more than that, the valves are somewhat problematic, at least one of them. Sound is good once I got a mouthpiece more suited to me. The flugles do have one draw back, the mouthpiece's have a more trumpet taper to the stem, the three commercial "standards" won't fit them. had to have an X-Stream custom made to get what I wanted as far as cup diameter and a stem that would work in the horn.
    As far as integrity of the joints and braces, they're holding together well. No problems like some of the horror stories posted in places on this site. Only time and use will prove them out, though. We're not too hard on ours, so maybe we won't be a good example to go by.............Buck:play::oops:
  3. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    The problem seemingly appears more often in used instruments with bottom springs. We just can't tell if they are equally balanced, i.e. each and everyone exerting 10.0 lbs pressure (10.0 lbs is hypothetical) as prior owners are known to stretch them and others bounce around on the floor and end up with a mashed helical ... in,out,up,down. I've seen them all ... do note that techs have a supply of replacements.
  4. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    The reason that flugelhorns are made with bottom sprung valves is player comfort.

    The flugel lead pipe goes straight into the 1st valve, so if the springs are on top in a spring box it makes the valve longer than bottom sprung models, and there is a greater vertical distance from the lead pipe to to the valve finger buttons. The player must hold his right hand higher.
  5. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

    Aug 14, 2010
    Jazz Town, USA
    OK, that makes sense!
  6. Buck with a Bach

    Buck with a Bach Fortissimo User

    Dec 29, 2009
    Canton, Ohio
    I agree..........:oops:
  7. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    Well, it would make sense if all flugelhorns were built that way, but as someone already has pointed out, his Yamaha flugelhorn has top-spring valves, and I don't recall anybody saying that Yamaha flugels were uncomfortable to play. In reality, whether the spring is at the top or the bottom, the casing has to be large enough to hold the piston and the spring.
  8. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

    Aug 14, 2010
    Jazz Town, USA
    And Carol Brass has top sprung flugels, as does Kanstul.
  9. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Does this make sense?
    All the musical action in perinet valves takes place at the bottom since you must depress them to engage the other ports. So entry into the valves must be low on the cylinder. And if your want the sound to emerge from a bell pointing away from you you need to bend the overall horn twice. It is the 180 degree leadpipe and bell bow which lower the action on a trumpet. On flugs the two 180 degree curves are in the bell, largely to afford a longer conical section, which yields the flugs distinctive sound. This allows a short (relatively)cylindrical leadpipe and valve slides of similar diameter. One could build a flug like a trumpet, but introducing a conical section into the long 180 degree leadpipe would mean a much larger entry port on #3, and all the through ports and slide ports and their tubing would have to be larger as well, increasing the bulk of the horn, valve diameter and stroke length.

    I have seen curved and angled leadpipes on flugs and most have through ports relatively higher to the slides than on a trumpet which raises the leadpipe marginally. But the comfort issue usually is not addressed since most folks don't play just flugel.

    Sorry, but this doesn't really address springs, although bottom springs will allow slightly higher ports.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  10. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    Probably something as dorky and simple as top springs seemed more modern than bottom springs.

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