I didn't feel Chetfan was beating up on Rowuk, and I didn't notice Rowuk having a chip on his shoulder. Sabutin, on the other hand, carries a big stick...on his shoulder. Sam was getting on everyone's nerves I believe. But I'll shut up about that now. What I really wanted to say is to Chetfan. This is probably the best place, in my opinion anyway, to bring up this topic. Chet Baker is a good example of determination and repitition building stone chops. I have played with old jazz men who's teeth had vacated their domicile long before I entered the musical world, and those guys were true masters of tone and technique. I have mentioned in other threads that I quit playing a good while back because of an injury. When I started back, my dental situation had changed, but not for the better. I have been able to build quicker and more solidly than I was ever able to in my younger years. The only positive change in my situation is in my mindset. I decided I would work harder and more steady, using better practice habits than before. Even with many of the "bad" habits and physical challenges, I am better than before (I know, you're thinking, "He must have stunk before!"...LOL). But the point is that Rowuk and others are completely correct. It is the constant, steady, repetitive, dedicated practice workout with much attention to habits formed or forming (out with the bad, in with the good). I knew an old jazzman with one leg, breathing problems, sinus trouble, no teeth, and playing a borrowed horn who could teach us all about embouchure development. AND he couldn't even explain to you what an embouchure is. BUT he sure had one. I always told my students, if you want to play, I can teach you to be a good musician; but if you HAVE to play, you will find a way to become a great musician without me. I also told them that if there was any way they could talk themselves out of being in my program, if there was anything they could imagine they would rather do, please do so. If they could not possibly make themselves quit, I knew I had a great core group in them. We know teeth are important as a support structure for the embouchure, but not having all of them should not keep a dedicated horn man/woman from becoming great. It was said that a very small percentage of professionals manage the ultra high range well. Is this some special technique? I notice some high note screamers have more "bad habits" than I do. I also notice that they never quit trying for that elusive riff or note or tonal effect. They also didn't listen or believe when the "experts" told them "You will never do it." Of course, an "ex" is an old has-been, and a "spurt" is just a drip under pressure. So I'll name my brothers here who advise me well "masters" and not "ex-spurts." I have read some "ex-spurt" comments lately. I was not impwessed (Tweety).