BREAKTHROUGH!!! (I have finally broken the embouchure code. I think.)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Pedagogy' started by Sabutin, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    Dec 5, 2008
    being fine instrumentalist isnt guarantee for being fine theorist, nor a teacher

    Afterall Louis Maggio himself was crap player, but a great teacher (thats what I have been told)
  2. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    ...but it does indicate an advanced sense of humor.

    Sam, like so many other t-boners I know, is a riot!

    He should consider entering one of those last comic standing contests or something.
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Let's try to keep on track. The thread is long and full of repeats. Sam is on to something that like everything else brass, may find a following, and maybe not. We can't judge that in advance.

    I never got the impression that his method had anything to do with comedy. He really believes it and will obviously defend it. It is kind of like hi fi. If you don't hear the difference, your ears are just not good enough. I'll keep an eye/ear on it. Perhaps one day my routine could benefit from a sing a long with Sam (or was that Mitch) routine. Just because I don't see the benefit now does not mean that in 1,2 or 10 years that won't change.

    Gzent, don't waste your time. If you don't agree (like me), put it in the pile of things to check up on every once in a while. Stranger concepts have proven valid. Sam checks back in every once in a while. Maybe one day he will post something that goes click for some of us.
  4. civicdude101

    civicdude101 New Friend

    Jan 7, 2010
    indiana PA
    The whole vowel thing is to much to think about. It should happen naturally. But none the less it is an interesting topic.
  5. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Piano User

    Mar 4, 2005
    If you look over at Trumpet Herald there is a thread about Adam Rapa's "secret". It doesn't seem that different from Sam's and, if it works for both of them, there just maybe something to it. I personally don't discount it but I think its only relevant for highly developed players. For those of us scuffling in the weeds, there are other, more fundamental issues to concern us.
  6. Elgin

    Elgin New Friend

    Jun 13, 2009
    I just finished reading this whole thread. What a fascinating discussion!
    This is my first post on TrumpetMaster, and I have a few observations:
    1. This is one of the most interesting topics I have ever read about! The khoomii demonstration link on YouTube is the most amazing thing I’ve seen. I took me a while to actually hear what was going on, and then, voila! This guy is producing a drone vocal tone and then consciously and selectively controlling the resonance of the overtones of that drone to produce a melody over the top of it. I understand it. I’ve experimented with it today. I see the connection as Sam has explained it. Will it help me? Can it help everyone or anyone? I’m looking into it.
    2. For part of my Army career, I was the piano technician at the Navy School of Music in Norfolk, VA. Then, my job was to listen to overtones. Sam is right-on. Ignoring the fundamental and listening to the overtones is the way we tune a piano. (the 3rd-12th test was one of my favorites for getting good stretched octaves) For some people, overtones are difficult to hear, because we mentally group the fundamental and its overtones (call them partials if you want) into a package. It takes practice to break a sound into its components. Once I tried to teach a piano teacher to tune a piano. I finally gave up because she just could not hear the overtones. He ears were fine. She was unable to open her mind.
    3. But, what’s even more incredible is the mean and closed-minded reception given to Sam’s new idea. What’s with that? And, it’s obvious after reading the entire thread, that many people were bashing Sabutin when they clearly had no clue what he was really talking about. Perhaps it’s not something that you care to learn or use, but to jump in and bad-mouth an idea or worse, a person without reasonable consideration… I don’t get that. :dontknow:
  7. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    Dec 5, 2008
    Hi Sam!

    Nice try, but still a bit hollow. Try again.
  8. Sabutin

    Sabutin Pianissimo User

    Aug 7, 2009
    New York City

    We have to learn how to hear a "note" as what it really is...a chord.

    Then it gets simple.

    I'm used to it, Elgin. I try to stay on the front of the wave here in NYC in every sense. Lots of people put down Bird and Coltrane and Mingus when they first appeared. On another level, what they were doing is what I am about as a brass theorist/teacher/performer.

    For example...check out the next reply.

    Some fool thinks that I have created you as a sort of sockpuppet in order to support my work.

    As if I really give much of a damn about what people who have no imagination, intelligence or talent think regarding what I am doing.

    I am glad you hooked into this idea, Elgin. Keep looking into it. It works.

    Bet on it.


  9. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Hey Sam,
    Keep up the great work. Remember, at one time people thought the world was flat and everything circled around the earth. You might want to hook up with a University and do some scholarly work on this idea. There are always Master level and Doctorate candidates looking for a topic to present.
  10. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN

    Listen to Sam, he is a creative genius!

    I mean, how many T-boners would have the 'nads to compare their Schtick to legends like Bird, Coltrane and Mingus!?

    It's this sort of comedic genius which will surely land Sam a gig at the Broadway slaying 'em with his tales of mastering the trumpet in five esy lessons and such!

    Great stuff Sam, keep it comin'!

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