BREAKTHROUGH!!! (I have finally broken the embouchure code. I think.)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Pedagogy' started by Sabutin, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Sabutin

    Sabutin Pianissimo User

    Aug 7, 2009
    New York City
    Thanks for the good words.

    Unfortunately I have found that universities and conservatories are by and large among the most conservative of all organizations in a musical sense. (That's why they're called "conservatories", right?)

    Anyone who is interested in what I am doing can easily contact me. It's not like I am hard to find. I have written two well received books..."Time, Balance and Connections-A Universal Theory Of Brass Relativity" being the most recent of the two; "The American Trombone" is the other...and posted literally thousands of things on various websites and mailing lists. As was...and has apparently always been...the case with edge-of-the-wave musical work, the silence from conservatories is deafening. I have seen this concept in action with many of my teachers and strongest personal musical influences...Carmine Caruso, Jimmy Knepper, Jack Nowinski, Gil Evans and Chico O'Farrill to name several of many...none of whom were ever approached by "conservatories" to any great degree during their working careers.

    But progress continues to be made.

    Outside of the mainstream.

    As has always been the case.

    So it goes.

    At least it's fun out here. ROFLROFLROFL :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :D

    And I suspect that the relatively unrestricted flow of information on the internet is going to literally force the mainstream academic organizations to inch up closer to that wave-edge as time goes by.

    I hope so, anyway.

    I hope that the internet remains "unrestricted."

    We shall see.

    If people like the nay-sayer clones that you see on this thread have anything to say about will not. And it's not like there aren't plenty of them.

    Just as it's always been.

    Bet on that as well.


  2. Sabutin

    Sabutin Pianissimo User

    Aug 7, 2009
    New York City
    I've got news fer ya, gzent.

    I have been playing with people on that level since about 1966.

    That's how I make my living.

    Bet on it.

    Go here and here if you doubt that. I am not awed by great musicians, famous or maybe not so famous. They're my peers, bubba.

    " 'Nads?"

    I have enough to stand toe-to-toe onstage with any jazz or latin musician the world has ever produced.

    That takes some heart.

    This stuff?

    Dealing with people like you?

    It's easy in comparison.

    Bet on it.

  3. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    And I've been working with world class medical doctors since 1999.

    That doesn't mean sh1t in regards to what I know about medicine.

    Just like it doesn't mean sh1t that you know anything about playing the trumpet just because you've played trombone at a professional level since 1966, sometimes with famous people here and there.

    Until you produce a video in which you demonstrate your trumpet virtuosity in a performance setting or provide an endorsement from a reputable pro trumpet player
    who has confirmed your ideas work then I will continue to take your postings for the joke they are.

    Bet on it.
  4. Sabutin

    Sabutin Pianissimo User

    Aug 7, 2009
    New York City
    Your loss, gzent.

    Not mine.

  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    There is no "proof" one way or the other. Sympathetic vibrations could apply to personalities too.

    If there is any real truth, it will withstand the test of time. If it is a technique only helpful to the chosen few, so be it.

    My opinion is that the consummate musician will be successful with a garden hose if need be. The rest of us either need to run with what we have. Sam checks in from time to time, that will keep this thread alive even if noone else has run with the theory. As long as it stays "clean" that is OK.

    Gzent, just let go. It isn't worth arguing about. I know plenty of pros with "unique" approaches. Many have the extreme talent and solid base to be able to afford experimentation that could ruin other types of players. Endorsements are meaningless in my opinion.

    I had a trumpet teacher that was into certain body use issues (that I was critical of) that ended up with him in a neck brace. It all comes out in the wash. If it makes Sam happy, let him post.

    I do not believe that we are all born equal and that there is any singular truth for how to play any brass - except to play a lot! There is no embouchure code to break as ears and brains are as individual as the face and body muscles.
  6. gelatinshoehorn

    gelatinshoehorn New Friend

    Aug 28, 2010
    I can't believe this stuff is controversial, I really can't. Using the body's resonance in making music is widespread, and really been around for a long time. Check out many of the reed instrument traditions from around the world, like the Duduk, or Turkish clarinet, like this:


    Head resonance is so important to the Turkish clarinet sound that this guy has a mic ON HIS HEAD, as well as on the instrument itself.
    I believe Sam has also mentioned the importance of this stuff to belle canto singing.
    I really believe that the great brass players do this as well, and the proof is simply in the richness of overtones you hear in a player like Maurice Andre. It ain't all equipment folks. Those guys are doing something that subtly, yet importantly crafts their sound.

    By no means should you care about my ability or progress as a player. I'm simply not that impressive. But for whatever it's worth, I've been working on these techniques for about 3 years on my own, and it has made a huge difference.
    thanks Sam !

  7. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    This thread hasn't had any activity for almost 2 years.
  8. Sabutin

    Sabutin Pianissimo User

    Aug 7, 2009
    New York City
    You are welcome. I also have been working on these approaches. Diligently. So have a number of other brass players. They are very effective if done well.

    But as is often the case, the naysayers and boo birds drown out new information. When I first found this stuff and realized how useful it could be, I (innocently) thought that it would be welcomed by many people. Silly me. My experiences on various non-trombone brass websites soon disabused me of that notion. So it goes.

    Use it well. I am happy to have been of some service.


  9. shooter

    shooter Piano User

    Jan 12, 2007
    My breakthrough.....which I seem to forget from time to time: The more I play, the better I get. Funny how that works. I don't understand the mechanics of it. Let's see......Breathing? My lungs do that involuntarily I think. Mouthpiece pressure? Sure, I try not to push too much, but hey, if I gotta hit that high C# at the end of worship service and I gotta dig it in, so be it. As long as I can produce what I hear in my head, I'm happy.

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