BREAKTHROUGH!!! (I have finally broken the embouchure code. I think.)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Pedagogy' started by Sabutin, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. thebugleboy

    thebugleboy Pianissimo User

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    I think I've had enough of this. I'll either ignore this one's threads or just leave the forum altogether. I certainly won't be purchasing this or any of his offerings. I believe most of us come here for something other than what we're getting on this line.
     
  2. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

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    If you read his posts, he tells that he is a stand up comedian.
    Ignore him....

    ----------------------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  3. Sofus

    Sofus Forte User

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    Sabutin!

    Maybe it´s time to come up with that video
    clip of you demonstrating the things you say . . .:cool:
     
  4. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    I have a short take on "breakthroughs:" they're common, everyday occurences which enhance progress in a skill. Everyday I hear a new overtone while mouthpiece buzzing, or perhaps a clearer, more buzzy tone which relates well to my playing. Some days, my playing up top is easier than the day earlier only to find that during a rehearsal I can't hear myself too well and back I go to overblowing, or overcompensating. The shed beckons and the progress continues, step by arduous step. Each breakthrough or setback brings with it a new revelation, but not a new musician with a giant S on his shirt.

    I've spent more than a few minutes looking into this, and it makes some sense, but no more sense than using your air more efficiently, or applying less mpc pressure than the day before, or resting more between practice sessions, or making better use of air when playing out. My point is that there is never just one breakthough that matters, it's the cumulative effect of all of the them over time, and not one of them will make you a better musician any more than instant coffee will get me more wired than brewed... maybe more rushed ;-). So thanks for the info. It's in the blender along with the ibuprophin and the practice timer and the metronome.

    Ed
     
  5. thebugleboy

    thebugleboy Pianissimo User

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    Good words, both of you, and you can hardly argue effectively with Bud Herseth.
     
  6. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    First of all, I find it somewhat audacious that sabutin aka Sam Burtis (About Sam Burtis : Sam Burtis dot com) a trombone player appears on a trumpet forum and proceeds to tell a lot of experienced and successful trumpet players, some pro, some not, that HE has unlocked a secret embouchure code.

    I don't care how good I get on trumpet, I would not presume to tell any trombone, tuba, horn, baritone, etc. player how my genius on the trumpet applies to their instrument unless I too was equally as proficient on their instrument. And then proceed to insult them when they question my bold assertions.

    Second, if anyone bothers to attempt what Sam describes you will soon find out that unless you are a soprano you can't sing nearly as high as you can play a Bb trumpet.
    I myself am a solid tenor and can regularly and comfortably sing a G above middle C without using falsetto. Anything above that I would need to use my falsetto, which is pretty useless in choral settings. My trumpet range is well above that.

    My point is that the vast majority of trumpet players cannot sing high enough to attempt the phenomenon you are suggesting by singing a matching tone to create an optimal oral cavity and throat opening for reinforcing the resonance of the standing wave for the upper register of trumpet playing. In lower registers you certainly can match the oral shape of a sung tone with the tone played on the trumpet and it does seem to help reinforce the stability of the note.

    I would posit that most experienced trumpet players with any success are already doing that unconsciously.

    As for the higher notes I can say that further constriction of the throat without attempting unnatural tongue manipulation does happen when the upper register is working well for me.

    Getting a feeling for how the throat / posterior tongue closes as one sings higher notes and reproducing that same closing effect as you play higher notes does seem to be a useful exercise for correcting poor playing mechanics. It may be illustrative to beginners too. I don't think too many pro trumpet players would be helped by it as they wouldn't be pros if they hadn't already put in enough hours on the horn to have
    mastered the technique of playing above the staff.

    my 2c,

    Greg

    PS - As I gain more experience and proficiency I will second what Rowuk said that embouchure, the lip positioning on the mouthpiece, is not nearly as crucial as how you use your body to "power" them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  7. thebugleboy

    thebugleboy Pianissimo User

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    One consideration which has been brought up briefly by one of the trumpetmasters, is the fact that with the voice, the whole human body is the instrument, with the sinus cavities, nasal passages, oral cavity and structure, bone structure of the face, etc., etc., etc. defining and shaping the tone. With the trumpet, as was mentioned earlier, the instrument is the instrument. The body is a supporting instrument and vibrating column producer which controls and changes the tone, but there are certain dynamics in the brass trumpet which do not parallel the vocal instrument. I may learn quite a bit from a saxman, but a good trumpetman is going to be able to give me the best advice on breath, tongue and teeth position, embouchure building excersizes, etc. specifically for a trumpet and for a specific trumpet (old peashooters react differently from an old big bore Conn 38B). A vocal coach can teach me basic principles but is not equipped to train me on a trumpet.
     
  8. Sabutin

    Sabutin Pianissimo User

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    New York City
    It is indeed.

    I'm working on it. I have 5 different people who are interested in the project, and if it turns out to be too expensive (and/or too complicated and time-consuming) to do it high end then I will make a down-and-dirty version myself around Labor Day and post it on YouTube.

    Stay tuned.

    S.

    P.S. You know of course that I could post a video of myself levitating over the Hudson River with eyewitness accounts from Mayor Bloomberg and a cast of thousands and some of the people here and on other brass sites would claim that I was lying. Professional naysayers are a dime a dozen, and no amount of information can open a completely closed mind.

    But I do keep trying.
     
  9. thebugleboy

    thebugleboy Pianissimo User

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    Deep South
    There is a difference between a novel and a history book with photo plates (or maybe a video documentary would make a better example). The latter does require some faith to accept, but the novel is not necessarilly intended to be taken as factual.
     
  10. Sofus

    Sofus Forte User

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    Jul 26, 2008
    It doesn´t have to be all that fancy!

    All you need is a simple video with a split picture of what
    happens outside your mouth and inside your mouth simultaneously . . .
     

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