Breathing

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by anthony, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

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    If you force your shoulders to stay still, you can introduce tension into the system, as is the case when you force anything.

    Absolutes rarely apply to trumpet playing.
     
  2. ska

    ska Pianissimo User

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    Uhm, maybe the word "force" isn't best to use here :/. It's like breathing in when you are yawning - that comes automatically - I do not really place weights on the shoulders to keep them from moving up, they will move up no matter what, as the torso fills with air, what I mean is however, is to breathe in so that one feels that every part of the torso swells. There is no need to force the air into the body, but just breathing in due to the yawning effect. I also go swimming 3 times a week ( almost every day in summer in the lake ) - that is something that helps boost the volume of air you breathe in without really shoving the air down your throat with a plunge or something similar.

    Absolutes indeed rarely apply to trumpet playing - but this is something that could be called a fundamental - it applies in singing, playing a wind instrument, swimming and jogging ( your breath must be of the volume you will use up to its full potential and it must be syncronized otherwise you will "run out of breath", feel tired very quickly, cuz you didn t provide enough oxygen to the muscles)

    Essentially what it comes down to is, that trumpet playing does require a good breath support otherwise you will compensate for the loss of air support by adding more pressure to your chops making you run out of "fuel" (stamina) faster. And a good breath support starts with correct breathing - This is physics combined with human anatomy - physics is maths and maths, my friend, is absolute ;)
     
  3. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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  4. ska

    ska Pianissimo User

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    Paradoxes occur in philosophy and not exact science - there are laws of physics that have been written by man which may contradict with one another, but that is not maths - that is a conclusion - maths is a part of philosophy, but it doesn't depend on it, philosophy is a part of maths and fully depends on it - note that maths isn't just adding numbers to get another number, it's a way of thinking. Maths is absolute, because everything we do , we do for a reason, and that reason is derived from our thougt process . We depend on mathematics, however it doesn't depend on us, it's an absolute.

    But yeah, that has lots to do with breathing I'm sure ( in a way it does )
     
  5. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

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    Physics and maths may be absolute, but, in general, such statements with respect to trumpet such as "don't raise your shoulders" aren't.

    And I have heard far too many people argue that "it's just physics" when it's far to easy to improperly extrapolate trumpet playing rules from physical laws.

    I will agree with you that in general one wants to avoid creating tension by breathing high (not breathing into the lower abdominal area).I will also agree that it's advantageous the breathe low and deep. But that's NOT the same as saying "don't raise your shoulders". Many truly excellent players do. From my observation, they generally do so at the end of the breath, but this is exactly what I'm getting at. There is a tendency for players with any level of skill to believe that when they think something works for them, then it becomes some universal rule. And, furthermore, on forums such like this posters tend to assert statements in such a way as to imply fact rather than opinion, observation, or experience.
     
  6. ska

    ska Pianissimo User

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    I fully agree that experience and observation and most of all, one's own opinion is what creates their feeling for playing, I am nearly self taught, I cannot go by a day without experimenting things, observing my sound quality at each given range - all of these things contribute to my accumulated knowledge and experience which I apply when I play the trumpet - and like you said, it's different for everyone - what I meant tho about the raising shoulders is that beginner player ( in truth, even intermediate level players) do not have the feeling of breathing deeply, I have trained it so much, it comes naturally, wether I raise my shoulders or not, cuz I know what it feels like to breathe deeply.

    A quick example: I visited the music school ( the city where I live, Tartu (if that means something :p ) - and I was just watching and listening to a 6th year trumpet player - there was something very curious about him - He plays well, no doubt in that, very beautiful tone on the lower register, but when he climbed higher his sound suffered - and I was listening, thinking and observing and then I noticed each time hea took a breath he raised his shoulders, and there was a significant difference between knowingly and unknowingly raising shoulders. And I realised he doesn't have the feeling of a full deep breath - judging by his sound ( and you can actually hear it really well when there is and when there isn't a solid breath support). About 15 minutes later of playing an etude which for the most part revolved around the 2nd octave G, A up to 3rd C, he complained about his chops getting swollen and I was like "heureka" I was right.
     
  7. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    trumpetplus sez:
    How, then, do you explain Zeno's paradox?
    ---------
    Correction, its "How do you explain Zeno's pair of socks?"
     
  8. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Piano User

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    Zeno's paradoxes are not a result of faulty math, they are the result of faulty understanding
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Breathing is the essence of our playing. Simple exercizes are only part of the picture. Getting that big breath without messing up other parts of the body is also an art. I think that the internet is not a very good venue for teaching this stuff. Yeah, there is a lot of great advice here, but when we look at how someone is supposed to "virtually understand" this, I see little chance for success. Yoga lessons are very good for this as is swimming. Just listen to your teacher. They are the ones that can see what you are doing right - and wrong.
     
  10. anthony

    anthony Mezzo Piano User

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    In the Clarke Tech. Studieds book it says to do the first studies "practice each exercise eight to sixteen times in one breath" ..........I can just about play it three times in one breath !!! I have been taking lessons with a pro. teacher for almost two years and I cannot play it more than three times is this about normal for three years ? Anthony:-?
     

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