Broken Embouchure

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Jarrett, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    We need to be careful with generalizing conditions. While I agree that dystonia is a really serious nasty thing, Jaarrett did not have a dystonia, he has strained muscle. It is so important to find the cause, be for a treatment is sought out, as the wrong treatment will lead to even more problems. Here is a case where the dystonia diagnosis was right on. I do know trumpet players with dystionia, and unfortunately, for trumpet players, due to the need of very fine motor control, it is not such an easy fix:

    Oro-mandibular dystonia
     
  2. strad116055

    strad116055 Pianissimo User

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    i didn't mean to diagnose anybody. i have two friends who have been diagnosed with distonia, both professional brass players. neither of them will ever play again. i point i was making, which wasn't clear-sorry-is that dystonia is not the first thing that happens to you. its the last thing. and it can be really final. the first thing in many cases are simple over-use injuries. one friend was a first trumpeter. he was playing a concerto with his orchestra and he doubled up on his practice time. by the end of the season, he was done. the other friend was a horn player in on a long-running show in new york. it was a particularly grueling show for the first horn and he should have taken more time off than he did. in both of these cases, these guys did not listen to their bodies. if you develop an over-use problem, you can take time off. but if you don't change what you're doing that causes the problem, its going to come back.
     
  3. cvayda

    cvayda Pianissimo User

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    Sorry, no offense but forget the Jarrett thing. Before this gets lost in that shuffle, I really need rowuk to weigh in on my delimma ! Anyone know how to reach him?
     
  4. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    You could either PM Rowuk or Start a new thread, this is piggybacked on an old one and he might not he getting alerts from it. I know there are those who say you should search first before asking and look at what has been written before and use the advice from there. This is Trumpetmaster not the trumpet search engine. I also note you have looked at embouchures.com. The lady in question is no doubt a very talented player but a breif look (and play) with her "Blocked Buzzing technique" does concern me that unless carefully monitored it will lead to excess pressure as you try to force air into a blocked tube. I'm not sure it's just instinct. That messing with a trick technique is a bit like messing with a truck mouthpiece. As I say I am not criticising the lady I am just not sure how it is supposed to work. What I will say if that a swollen lip is most often connected to pressure, which in turn can be down to poor body use/poor breath use and a inefficeint practice routine with too little break time. That is nothing more than a generalisation and I feel you need more directed help.

    I hope that helps you.

    A
     
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    How can Rowuk or anyone for that matter help you over the internet? There are so many variables here. You have a cross bite. Were you able to play without swelling prior to developing the cross bite? If so, what changed (equipment, rehearsal pattern, rehearsal duration, mouth trauma, dental surgery) in your life when you FIRST started noticing the swelling.

    The point is, you have swelling. This is your muscle telling you it is strained. Don't change equipment at this time. Stop playing. Period. Let the muscle recover. You will not get a quick fix at this stage.
     
  6. cvayda

    cvayda Pianissimo User

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    Always had a cross bite and played just fine w/o swelling - no problems. The only thing that changed was having the shank turned down over 2yrs ago to close the GAP. Instead of things improving, things unraveled. It was at that time that I (and others) noticed the slight swelling.
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Perhaps with the shank change, more blowing resulted to compensate for sound. These subtle changes can translate to overblowing when sustained over time. But I am not totally convinced that the shank turn down ultimately lead to the strain you sustained as is suggested in your posts.
     
  8. BrotherBACH

    BrotherBACH Piano User

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    Although I am not much in the habit of offering training advice, a ruptured orbicularis oris does seem to fit when I was reading your post. As we age our bodies can not take the pounding that they did in our younger years. It is almost an instinctual transition. When we are young we tend to "over train" but our bodies compensated for our lack of sophistication by our ability to recuperate. As we get older, wiser and gain more experience, we get more efficient at achieving the same training stimulus in less time, thereby allowing the necessary greater time to recuperate. The physiology of recuperation is also separate from the fact that the material properties of our tissues change as we get older and it is much easier to rip and/or tear muscles. Ligaments and tendons are also more prone to injury.

    Have heart, a methodical rehab plan can work wonders.

    BB
     
  9. strad116055

    strad116055 Pianissimo User

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    BB: as a professional orchestra player, i have seen this happen time and again, and it is real. the competition is so intense to get a job that we will do practically anything when we're young to acheive our goals. carrying those kinds of habits into middle age often results in injuries. i see young people all the time get into our orchestra (i am a string player and i see this in string players most often) where a young players gets in the band only to discover after 6 months that they're in over-use territory practically all the time, and they're really suffering. some sort of transition needs to be made, because you can't maintain a professional schedule by sheer force of will. as any body who has a gig playing knows, you just don't call in and say, "sorry, i need a rest today." you have to keep playing while you maintain and prepare, and its a balancing act. acheiving that balance is one of those things that can determine the course of a successful career, as opposed to a very short one.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    This post probably has the most incite into the reason why accomplished players get into trouble. For less accomplished players it also applies in a different way. The professional has his "habits" honed to a very high degree. Preparation is often more conceptual and detail work. The "weaker" player needs the preparation time to develop the necessary skills - just to get through. The overwork for body and brain as well as the uncertainty of "almost being ready" end up taking the same toll.

    If you are not a professional player but taking lessons and you have never discussed getting a life, it is perhaps time to "force" the issue.

     

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