buzzing from 2 sources at a time?! observations from a complete beginner!!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by xelaris, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. xelaris

    xelaris New Friend

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    Jan 19, 2009
    I'm a total beginner and started playing trumpet about 10 days ago. Having playing the Saxophone for several years by now I've never imagined how difficult and tiring trumpet playing could be.

    Yet, I see some rewarding progress and in the last couple of days as I've managed to hit a very convincing top C!! (2 lines above the stave).

    I get a better grip of the higher register by moving my embochure towards the top of the rim (rather than in the middle)...and I think that probably helps the upper lip's muscles to tighten up a bit more (as they are supported by the mouthpiece itself).

    Another interesting observation is about the shape of my upper lip...the middle of it is "M" shaped sort (don't have a proper name for that), and while practicing buzzing without the mouthpiece I've noticed that sometimes I produce 2 buzzes at the same times...(these are expelled from the top corners of the "M" upper lip).
    Now, being familiar wiith audio acoustics, those 2 frequencies coming from my mouth might justify the sort of noise I get sometimes from my trumpet (anyone heard of Ring Modulation?).
    Apparently I got 3 buzzing sources: the 2 top corners of the M (these can by used independently) and the one in the center of the mouth.

    I guess there is "a right way" of buzzing and although I'd promised myself to learn my own way, it would be interesting to have a feedback from more experienced players.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    X,
    the feedback should be in person. Getting a kick start will enhance the experience and keep you from developing habits that are very tough to break!

    You should not "move" your embouchure. You just need to practice enough to have the strength to let it work in one place.
     
  3. Snorglorf

    Snorglorf Pianissimo User

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    Nov 13, 2008
    Post a youtube?
     
  4. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I agree with ROWUK while I am all for relearning on your own buzzing is the most crucial thing to get right. Seriously some have called trumpet and other brass winds "Lip-Reed" instruments. Just like you wouldnot try to play your sax with bad reed made from popcicle sticks you fashioned yourself you do not want to do that with the trumpet either. I am not saying your lessons ned to be formal only that you should at the very least have your band director or someone with more trumpet expeince listen to you and make any needed corrections!

    Also I agree with ROWUK that you shouldnot move your embouchure around the mouthpiece. You need to find the most comfortable postion for you. Then practice and practice and as your strength improves and you cordination improves so will your range. You will never be consistent if you move around the mouthpiece trying to hit various notes by moveing your embouchure around. As you have seen postioning can have a huge impact on how easy it is to work one end or the other of the register but their is no one postion that I would say is ideal as your jaw,teeth and even your gum tissue plays a role just as much as your lips in where you can comfortably play.
     
  5. Sofus

    Sofus Forte User

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    xelaris!

    If you´ve found a position on your mothpiece where
    you can play a high C after 10 days, It´s very likely
    to be the wrong position. Learning to play high C´s
    normally takes at least 1 year of good practising.

    I agree completely with rowuk and lovevixen555!
     
  6. xelaris

    xelaris New Friend

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    Jan 19, 2009
    Thanks for all your comments...

    Yet, there isn't any feedback regarding this 2 simultaneous buzzings. Maybe they are "wrong" and don't apply to proper trumpet playing...but all in all, I'm not really interested in "proper" trumpet playing (I'm a late starter and my instrument is the Alto Sax anyway).

    Someone suggested that hitting that high C so early means there must be something wrong?! What if that top C sounds great? (As it does indeed?).

    Anyhow, there is a lot to learn for me as hitting the right notes is still a bit of a gamble.
     
  7. xelaris

    xelaris New Friend

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    Jan 19, 2009
    I was expecting this kind of comments...."corrections" you say, but to what standards? Each mouth for example differs...my upper lip for example while not being weird, is rather unusual and maybe I should try to make the most of that!?
    One should keep the embouchure still...so it doesn't need to be centered? What if I keep the embouchure on top (near the rim) as these helps with the high register and work the way down towards the lower range? That way my embouchure won't be moving and all notes would play the way I want.
     
  8. VINTAGEBRASS

    VINTAGEBRASS Pianissimo User

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    Branson
    For a proper start on the trumpet(or any instrument), seek out a trumpet teacher in your area. If monies are tight just take a few lessons here and there to keep you on the proper track. Having lessons in person gives the teacher the opportunity to observe you in real time and give the proper instruction.
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    xelaris,
    even if somebody is bold enough to guess at what you should do, there is no basis for the guesstimate. Embouchure advice should be in person. There is money to be made on the net and there are no guarantees. Find somebody locally to help.
     
  10. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Believe me when Rowuk and I agree 100% on something it must be true and not a matter of opinion or based on differing life experinces. Some things sre true just because they are and are often universaly true and transcend cultures and beliefs and such! Your lips when you play properly should have their entire surface that is with in the rim of the mouth piece buzzing at some speed but the closer to the center of the lips you get the more unified the rate of buzz. Your lips do not buzz constantly if you slowed it down in slow motion you would see pulse's as the pressure builds to over come both the residual tension in your lips plus the reinforceing air pressure that is bounceing back down the horn and supporting the lips fromt he outside a pulse of vibrations happens. Just like the an engine in a car it has to happen over and over again repatidly in order for it to seem as thoufgh it is constant and semless.

    So the fact that you have awarness of the different rate of buzz of various portions of the lip is not a big deal. It simplely means that you have good properception and kinestetic awareness. I would imagine that the mechanorecptors in your lips are simply very very sensitive. With more practice your body will learn to ignore this un-needed and possably disruptive data. Not all data that the body sense's is useful sometimes it can be a problem. this is why our brain filters out better then 90-% of the information the sense's are able to pick up. If not we would be so over loaded with senssory data that we would be almost unable to make decisions in a timely manner or do things complex like walking and running etc..... So I would say keep practiceing and find a comfortable place to place that mouth piece. You might also try a larger rim like something inthe 3C range I would give Stork mouthpiece a try. I am only guessing at what I think is causeing the problem so I do not want to put it out in a thread as a fact but I definately think a Stork MP in the 3C ball park will prove to be helpfull! I have to say that after spending months researching mouth pieces and the reason for various designs I am preety good at picking mouth pieces based on problems.Not that I am big on band aid solutions but I think that this will work itself out as you practice more 10 days is too early to really have an opinion one way or the other. I think the stork rim profile will be comfortable for you and will encourage you to naturaly play from a place of comfort. I think you will develop fewer problems or bad habits with their mouth piece's because they give you less feed back due to the shape of the cup and rim profile. Since you seem to be overly sensitive this might be of some help! It is not my first choice it is my second choice but itis more affordable then my first choice hence the reason I recomended it!
     

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