Buzzing School of thought

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by anthony, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    Oh, really? Perhaps you'd care to supply wave-form diagrams to demonstrate how I'm wrong?
     
  2. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Pressure (top) and Velocity (bottom) wave forms of a trumpet at top of stave E

    [​IMG]

    A buzz velocity waveform would differ a little in detail, but would follow a similar pattern.
     
  3. evan12697

    evan12697 New Friend

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    for me its a waste of time. Had a masterclass with Phil Smith once, he says the same. Without the natural resistance of the horn it doesnt do anything, and additionally as he explained even if you just put your lips close enough and just blow down the leadpipe (as he demonstrated) they'll start buzzing because of the back pressure. Tom Hutchinson also, had a masterclass with him and more of the same.
     
  4. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    To what end? You've already backtracked. ROFL
     
  5. evan12697

    evan12697 New Friend

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    you misunderstand, i mean free buzzing and mouthpiece buzzing. Blowing down the lead pipe was just his rough demonstration.
     
  6. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    How is putting a STUDENT in touch with the physical aspects of using their lips a waste of time? Is it a waste of time for Phil Smith? Sure. I can also "defeat" lead pipe blowing. Without the lips, top and bottom, being "excited", i.e. "buzzing", there will be no standing wave regardless of the caliber of the player. I'm "guessing" you guys are for the most part classical/legit players and are really hung up on the word "BUZZING". You won't use it, but without it, you can't play a note, but the semantic gymnastics ARE entertaining to read!! ROFL
     
  7. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    My reply was to gsmonks, not you, sorry.
     
  8. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    The wave forms shown a) aren't the right type, and b) weren't taken from the right location.

    We're talking about the wave forms at the aperture, plus what's physically happening to the aperture.

    When the lips buzz, pressure-waves (sound) are produced by air passing through the lips, pushing them out. Their elasticity causes them to snap back towards their original position. This happens over and over again, becoming a process.

    Much of the sound comes from the lips themselves. You can feel it right up into your nose.

    You'd have to be brain-dead to not notice that this stops the instant you start playing a note. When you play a note, a different process begins.

    The lips, when you play a note, work with the sound very differently. They become part of the standing wave within the tube. The vibration-pattern goes from roughly vertical to roughly horizontal. Plus you can experiment moving the lips apart, to the point that buzzing becomes impossible.

    There's also the matter of open-end and closed-end tubes, which I may get into later.
     
  9. dangeorges

    dangeorges Pianissimo User

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    I find it fascinating to read that some folks here think that the lips don't buzz in order to make the trumpet make sound.

    I believe it would be impossible to make sound without the lips buzzing in the mouthpiece.

    I guess you could hook up an air compressor to the leadpipe and push tons of air through and see if the horn makes a sound. I'm not a betting man, but I would wager money that no sound will be produced (at least not one that would be a sound recognizable as a trumpet sound).
     
  10. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Pictures versus a 1000 words


    So airflow opens lips by friction? Really? So closed lips = no air flow = no friction = lips do not open.

    Difference between oral cavity pressure and external pressure explain it more convincinqly IMO.



    No. Resonant pressure fluctuations in te cup (see previous post) amplify te pressure difference before and after te lips, workin in concert wit lip elasticiticy, to boost (and selectively filter) te buzz. Same process. Just boosted by a resonant air column.
     

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