Buzzing School of thought

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by anthony, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    And the ad hominum post starts as the "argument" is being lost. I'm waiting for the adjectives "harmful and dangerous" to be used. There may be a straw man in there somewhere but It's not worth digging imo. I really wish I could find the article where an old master of brass winds, not just trumpets, referred to them as "double reed" instruments, with the "reeds" being you top and bottom lip. The air compressor analogy is great! I'll also throw in the 1,000 cfm air blower. You have speed (fast air :roll:) AND volume (belly push :roll:) in one machine. Don't press any valve down though unless secured. They will go flying!!
     
  2. dangeorges

    dangeorges Pianissimo User

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    I have a buddy who works at the Conn-Selmer factory - he pressure tests horns (for leak tolerance). I'm pretty sure he uses some sort of air input to do his tests. I'll see what he says about what sounds are produced when he tests for leaks.
     
  3. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    Nor do your vocal chords buzz when you talk. It's the same process we're talking about.

    You can force your lips to buzz while you play. The sound is awful.

    You're not paying attention. What I said was that the type of vibration, either lip-buzzing or tone-producing, is different.

    Have you ever tried to talk when you have a bunch of crap on your vocal chords? The extra crap (mostly snot) adds mass to the vocal chords and causes them to "rattle", which is similar in its way to lips buzzing.

    Again, you're out by a full 90 degrees in terms of wave-function.
     
  4. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    I doubt very much that he'd have a clue.
     
  5. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    Well, that's nonsense, and very much out of date. In the brass-physics world, brasswinds are termed "lip-vibrated aerophones", which is both correct and misleading.
     
  6. dangeorges

    dangeorges Pianissimo User

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    Oh? And why do you say that?
    He pushes air through trumpets all day. I think he'd know if they made a sound or not. I don't believe he's deaf.
     
  7. dangeorges

    dangeorges Pianissimo User

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    You're right. I'm not paying attention. Because what you're saying makes no sense at all.
     
  8. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    You guys sure like to read stuff into this that isn't there.

    No, airflow does not open lips by friction. It's a process similar to the clamshell type of pulse jet. The clamshell that opens and closes can itself be studied as an extension of a wave-form. Sticking a horn on that would be a good analogy here. What you'd hear would be a helluva racket.

    But that's not how it works.

    Here's what you guys aren't getting:

    If the lips were buzzing, you'd get a constricted, inefficient, awful sound. You can do this by compressing the lips and forcing them to buzz.

    However, when you're producing a standing wave, using the instrument, the physics of the situation changes completely. The lips become part of the standing wave. Capiche? There is a world of difference between that, and what happens when a pair of lips are buzzing.
     
  9. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    Because he's never studied the physics of brasswinds.

    You should read up on the subject on the University of Edinburgh's website.
     
  10. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    What you're relying on is dogma, not information. It makes perfect sense when you think it through.

    That's the long-standing problem with trumpet players. Generations of dogma being passed off as information.
     

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