Can I Diagnose it as Throat Tension?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by john7401, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Mystical AND physiological AND oh, oh, oh, so helpful.
     
  2. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

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    Not really, I think.
    The veins get more pronounced when the backflow of the blood towards the heart is getting impeded.

    When clenching your fist the veins will only come out if you put that little belt around your arm at the same time and pull it tight, which will impede the blood's backflow.

    Something very similar happens when you raise the air pressure in your breathing system: the air pressure impedes the blood's backflow especially (but not only) from your head.
    That's why you see the veins' swelling - not because of forcing more blood to your head.

    :think:
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  3. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    When the veinal backflow is impeded and the heart pumps more blood into the carotid artery to the brain and those other places in your head something is going to happen that ain't nice.

    Absolutely, if you were standing on one football field goal line and I were on the other, I would not want to be able to hear you practice and if I could I'd know you were overblowing ... and then it only stands to reason that you are using too much pressure between your lips and the mouthpiece in doing so. Too much pressure impedes the blood flow in the lips and wears upon your endurance and often puts too much lip inside the mouthpiece causing one to bottom out in shallow mouthpieces or become "flubber" lipped in large ones.
     
  4. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Ed Lee sez:
    Absolutely, if you were standing on one football field goal line and I were on the other, I would not want to be able to hear you practice and if I could I'd know you were overblowing ...
    ---------
    EXPLITIVE!! Ed, I think for those starting out, you've came up with the trumpet equivilent of the king deciding how long is a foot. What you said makes sooooo much sense and it creates a "standard".
    Bravo!
     
  5. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

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    Rowuk, I know you mentioned getting the pressure off the top lip and now I'm remembering the trombonist telling me to work on that too. He even later told me at a Brass Band practice a little bit ago that he thought that was probably the as important as my blowing more for those higher notes! I feel so stupid! People keep giving me the answers and I just don't pay attention. I'm sick of doing this to myself.

    I'm going to buy a notebook and whenever people give me advice and ideas on my playing I'm going to write it in there. If it doesn't seem logical then I will talk to this forum and my teacher and/or band directors that are also good players (+ 1 a good teacher). This is something I really need to get in my head with accepting advice if I want to get serious about my playing. I promise I will fix it. (And I promise to quit overblowing. And furthur work to less pressure.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    John,
    you need to find somebody local that you trust, and then TRUST THEM. If you get a second opinion on everything on life, you will most certainly fail on many things due to indecision. It is impossible to follow two commanders. Make your mind up and run in ONE direction. After a year, you can look back and make adjustments. Before the basics are well on there way, it makes no sense to intellectualize the process.
     
  7. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

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    My private instructor now keeps telling me that we will figure out the whole range issue eventually. He seems to also not want to talk about my range when I confront him with questions about it so I think he is more on your side Rowuk. He may want me to just keep practicing and see if it developes over time?

    As we were working through my method books he also mentioned when I confronted him a bit ago that we were getting up to the excercises that should help in range developement. He also knows I have range problems because he had told me before that at my stage in high school I should at least have a C above the staff useable.

    I also asked my private instructor about quiet practicing. He said he heard of it but I think he said he never tried it. He did not seem opposed to it in any way though as long as it helped me so I'm going to tell him that this is what I'm going to be trying now and work with him on this idea for range development. (and musical in the long run)

    However if I'm always practicing quiet, how will I know if I can play the music at the level it should be played at? Shouldn't I at least be doing some practice at that level to make sure I have it down for the performance of it?

    Last thing I promise. On the topic of choosing one leader and trusting/sticking with it, does this mean that I shouldn't be using this website for practice/playing related advice since I do have a good teacher?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  8. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

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    Many people are not able to cope with two (or even more) different opinions, as indecision will be the result without any doubt.
    The Chinese government (for example) shows how people find shelter from too many opinions, especially on the internet.

    You can't follow two commanders.

    But then again, one commander may easily be one too many.

    ;-)
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    John,
    you can compare trumpet development to many other "development" things in your life. When you as a baby were toilet trained, it didn't happen overnight. It became a conditioned response over time. The same goes for learning to walk or speak. With the trumpet we must learn to synchronize breathing, face muscles, brains and ears at the same time we are developing a sense of style. When you play against the music (because the brain isn't ready), it is possible to play high notes but they are musically worthless. Like walking, crapping and speaking, the best way is to always try and get the brain involved early.

    If playing high is your goal, you need smart high notes. Use a Hymnbook and practice those easy tunes up an octave! Keep the MUSIC in the middle and things will grow.

    When I say to follow your teacher, that does not mean blindfolds for everything else. It means after a lesson you don't blog everything that they said. If you don't understand something ask THEM! Make that relationship work. It is real, person to person and PAID FOR. What you get here is virtual, from "anonymous" sources and not based on what you are really doing, rather what you THINK that you are doing. It is also free and often worth exactly that.

    There is a certain amount of security in admitting faults over the internet - the people don't know who you really are and we can write off the critics as not understanding, as bullies, or self-righteous pains where the sun doesn't shine. Change your username and you can start all over. In the real world, it isn't that easy. You have to really produce. At the end of the day, it is YOUR work and dedication that produces results. The teacher can shorten the ride by steering you around mistakes (like wanting to play high too fast without the air and the chops).

    For the record: practicing softly helps you as you can practice much longer without beating your face up. That ultimately helps endurance. Most players have an ensemble like band where they can test the "loud" waters often enough.........
     
  10. Back at it

    Back at it Pianissimo User

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    when I was comming up I had the same problem. As a comeback player I had the same problem to less degree but have worked through it well. There is a great article on the Stork webiste you should read on their articles page. When I was young the thinking was "bigger is better" relative to mouthpiece diameter and cup. I used a bucket then that was far to big for me to play efficiently on. I could not create the velocity to put through the horn so , like many, tried to create the velocity far before the mouthpiece, in back of mouth and throat. This is where I would "cut myself off". It was'nt until after university and while studying at a music school did I learn about this problem and changed mouthpieces. It was majic for me personally, my range improved dramatically without sacraficing sound. The mouthpiece change was done wisely, with a symphony player and professor of trumpet. I'm not saying change mouthpieces but pay attention to where your air velocity is falling appart. If it is within you i.e. your cutting yourself off trying to increase velosity, then that is what you need to pay attention too. I always stuck with Claude Gordon's cliche of try it 3 times the out. Don't push high notes, don't work on it too long, 3 x' then stop! Pay attention to the velocity of air and where you may be pinchig off.
     

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