Can lip buzzing and mouthpiece buzzing become harmful if used to much?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by mctrumpet, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. iainmcl

    iainmcl Pianissimo User

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    Nov 4, 2006
    New Zealand
    Hi.
    Something to watch out for (and this is why I no longer lip-buzz) is the fact that you can sometimes end up buzzing at one point on your chops, and playing on another.
    This happened to me a some years ago and I ended up with a double-aperture and everything I played came out as 2 separate notes. That might sound like a cool idea but it certainly didn't feel good. I had to lay off playing for a couple of weeks, then start over again. It mystified my teacher at the time.

    Just my 2.5 cents worth >-iii-
     
  2. Phillydawg

    Phillydawg New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2009
    SoCal
    I think it can be VERY harmful. Lip buzzing or flapping not so much, but the mouthpiece yes. Because with IT now you're condensing into a tight air column. It's all about airstream and resistance difference throwing off tongue arch or "air and tongue coordination". Which, is shaped and regulated by the resistance, which if constantly changing (m.piece alone vs m.piece in horn,different mouthpieces, constantly changing horn bores,etc.) throws everything off. The sound is also affected and is not as solid as when warming up with the piece in the horn. I think CG is totally correct/right on this issue. I myself did this buzzing practice years ago. It wasn't until I started doing a nice warm up on the horn that everything started solidifying. Even the great Charlie Davis would show you the difference by blowing air thru the mouthpiece then bringing the horn up and a note pops out. Also the reverse is true where you can start a note on the horn then gently remove the horn and you're blowing air again thru the mouthpiece. Also the pitch would be different and forcing it to match is futile. It's about physics and consistant airstream which your chops and the lip cells in your lips center on.
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If the practice routine is enough, no amount of buzzing will hurt. It is only a problem when we do NOT practice enough and try and replace quality horn time with mouthpiece time that we mess ourselves up. Learning to play trumpet, needs the trumpet.
     
  4. hichez

    hichez Pianissimo User

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    Jul 13, 2009
    You should know that a mouthpiece just amplify a normal buzz without a trumpet or mouthpiece. The trumpet itself makes it a lot easier so im guess from that basic knowledge that buzzing would over time would cause more strain on your lip. But that's just my hypothesis im not 100% so don't quote me on it.

    Also you should buzz on the mouthpiece everyday it improves tone quality and eventually your lips will mimic that tone naturally. That what I have been told.
     
  5. Nikv

    Nikv Pianissimo User

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    Jun 20, 2009
    Santa Barbara, CA
    I do mouthpiece alternating with trumpet buzzing out of the James Thompson Buzzing Book for 40 minutes, and it's probably the most beneficial thing I've ever done.
     
  6. Phillydawg

    Phillydawg New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2009
    SoCal
    It's not so much the strain on the lip, it's all about air column and it being consistant and based upon the resistance your blowing against(horn + mouthpiece). Playing a mouthpiece to build chops or warm up is playing on a false resistance and not the same as when it's in your horn. It throws off tongue and air coordination in this regard especially for a phat/strong upper register. I know too many former Stamp students, many are top Hollywood studio players, who went to Claude Gordon, or Pappy Mitchell, who will tell you the same thing. Nor did Herbert L. Clarke or Louis Maggio teach it, which incidentally Maggio taught Stamp(and CG) but Stamp I guess rejected him and/or went his own way. CG put out a ton of great lead players just by giving them a regimented systematic routine to do based on one mouthpiece and one horn together. :)

    One can very much easier warm up nice and easy on the horn with a good pattern, than the mouthpiece alone and reap BETTER results. My teacher for example took CG's five 1/2 notes from his Daily Trumpet Routines and tweaked it for 2 octaves. Basically you slur middle C, B, Bb, B, C, and slide down the octave to low C, B, Bb, B, C. Then take your horn off your chops a few seconds and raise everything a 1/2 step. Keep doing this in 1/2 step key increments until you reach high C, then rest 5-10 minutes and you're ready for just about anything. You've now warmed yourself up on your horn utilizing each pipe combination of the horn in two octaves touching your low, middle and start of the high register. There are also tags that can be done on each key too. Half chromatic scales, arpeggios, 5ths,etc. to break up the monotany,etc. :)

    Now the buzzing without a mouthpiece I see no problem because you're not establishing a tight air column that way like I mentioned. Pitch center too is also relevant to the mouthpiece IN THE HORN utilizing the partials,etc. The pitch center on the mouthpiece is totally different than when it's in the horn. These two factors also fight each other. Forcing the pitch on the mouthpiece alone doesn't help with playing the trumpet and IT"S pitch center based on the way you blow with the mouthpiece in the horn. CG said it best, "there's nothing that will replace playing a trumpet than playing a trumpet." He was a collector of "boondoggles" one of which I'd heard was a "buzz it", which was a plastic valve section with a metal arm that jutted out that you put your mouthpiece in. Was supposed to simulate playing a horn. Plain and simple, just put the piece in the horn and warm up on the partials and notes on the horn.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  7. Phillydawg

    Phillydawg New Friend

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    You have been told wrong IMHO. heh.
    I have had NO tone trouble whatsoever in NOT buzzing a mouthpiece. If someone has a tone problem I believe actually it's long tones ON THE HORN that will improve tone quality. Playing the mouthpiece you're playing on a false resistance and not one your going to be playing on...which is the one with the piece in the horn. :) Warm up and play on THAT and you'll improve.

    BTW....why do you think many of the top players in LA use Bob Reeves sleeves? Because they want to fine tune the resistance they get with their set up. That gap is way important too. Too much can make the horn play stuffy, not enough will suck the air out of you like a vacuum cleaner,heh. Constantly CHANGING this gap will do some serious damage not unlike buzzing a mouthpiece for hours.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
  8. Phillydawg

    Phillydawg New Friend

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    SoCal
    I think you just contradicted yourself?? I mean....."if the practice routine is enough"..... that in itself should be enough and I agree with your last statement which coincides with CG's statement,etc. Buzzing mouthpieces throws stuff off. Why would we warm up on a false resistance totally foreign to the resistance we get from the horn and mouthpiece together? You'll have a more solid sound and higher range by playing the trumpet instead of the mouthpiece IMHO. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
  9. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Too much mouthpiece buzzing , more than a minute or two without the resistance of the trumpet causes the embouchure to spread much more open than it would normally be , it also changes the angle of the set-up. Like I said a minute or two, to get the blood flowing is fine , more than that does more harm than good.
     
  10. Veldkamp

    Veldkamp Piano User

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    Mar 29, 2004
    the Netherlands
    Maybe for some people buzzing will help if their chops are out of focus. But for most players buzzing doesn't add much. You can practice a lot of stuff in the same time you're buzzing and you will have more fun!
     

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