Cant get Valves back into horn.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Repair and Modification' started by stever, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. stever

    stever New Friend

    Sep 7, 2010
    I recently got my cornet back, from when I was a kid. It's in bad shape and the valves were completly stuck.
    I managed to oil it up and "coax" the valves out - possibly with more coaxing then I should have used. :dontknow:
    I used a socket that fit into the shaft and was close to size of the valves and gently tapped the valves loose, then, under the advice of my sons teacher, I cleaned the whole cornet in a bath of luke warm water, scrubbing it with cleaning brushes.
    Now that its mostly clean, I re-oiled the valves but

    the number 1 and Number 3 will not fit back in.

    There is a ridge half way down the shaft that the bottom of the valves will not fit into.
    The number 2 seems to be ok.
    There does not appear to be any obstruction in the shaft or on the valves, and there are no dents in the outer valve caseing.

    Do you know why they won't go in and how to fix this?
    Is this fixable at home?
    If not,
    Is this an expensive fix, or is it even fixable.
    This is a selmer bundy horn from aprox 1974 I had it when it was new but it has been out of my hands for the last 30 years or so.

    Added after my second post:
    I just looked up the numbers on Horn-u-Copia to verify the year I got the cornet and there were som discrepencies.
    The cornet was new when i got it and that was in around 1974 or 1975. despite this, Horn-u-Copia lists that serialo as dating to 1960-1963 and prior to the time that selmer bought bundy. Despite this fact, the horn does say selmer and bundy on it. I suppose it could have sat on the shelf for 11 or 12 years?
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  2. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land

    Have you got one and three in the right holes - #1 should be closest to the player.
  3. stever

    stever New Friend

    Sep 7, 2010
    Yup, I do.
    I should add: after playing with it a little more its become apperent that the number 2 is not actually in working order, its just better then the other valves. it will go in but not all the way. I have managed to get the number 1 to go in a little but its extremely stiff and doesnt seem to want to fit, the number 3 will not go in at all.
  4. Mr. Stomvi

    Mr. Stomvi Pianissimo User

    Nov 14, 2003
    Quit screwing around with it and spring the cash and and take it to a qualified repairperson like you should have done in the 1st place :-)
  5. stever

    stever New Friend

    Sep 7, 2010
    Good advice Im sure, unfortunatly I havent had much money to spend on such things lately. :-( so I'm still holding out hope for a no cost - easy solution to the problem, especially since there are other repairs that I already knew were going to have to be made to the horn.
    The other thing is that, from my understanding of the value of this horn, the repairs are going to excede the monitary value of it, so any work thats done will ultimatly be for sentimental reasons ... a hard sell to my wife, if you know what I mean. :-o
    Although to be honest, I may be assuming that the price to fix this is higher then it really is :dontknow:
    In any case, I think that the fiddleing that I have done since the washing has been fairly innocuous. hopfully i'm right on that :-)
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    Mar 21, 2006
    Sounds like the socket you used may have expanded the bottom of the piston slightly, or you may have warped the casings getting them out.
  7. stever

    stever New Friend

    Sep 7, 2010
    I understand.
    Are either of those two things fixable?
    Is that usually expensive to have done?
    Any other thoughts on the subject?

    I was reading about the Lap method and tried that out. It has helped some with the number 1 and 2 but not enough, and the number 3 still won't go into the shaft.

    The repair shops I have spoken to do not seem to like giving out rough estimates which makes it hard to decide who to leave it with, and at least one of them wont even look at it without money up front, so knowing what others have paid for this type of thing would be a great help.
  8. chenzo

    chenzo Piano User

    Jul 18, 2008
    :stars: use a wooden mallet and hammer them back in :stars:
    then use as abugle
  9. stever

    stever New Friend

    Sep 7, 2010
    While it may not seem logical to some of you to do what i have done with this horn. I just double checked, and the price to buy one of these on ebay working, and in reasonable condition is... buy it now $99 + 15ish shipping.

    The price I was quoted to ungunk the valves was 100 dollars, that being a rough estimate and didnt include any other work that would have to be done to make the valves work. Not to mention all the other problems the thing has as far as dents in the bell, broken solder , missing brackets... did I mention this thing is a mess?

    The truth is that it does have sentimental value to me, but it was unfortunatly, out of my hands for about 30 years, so alot of crap happened to it.
    It is esentially a money pit and I don't have a lot of money to throw around.
    So, yeah I tried to take the cheap way out, and frankly I still am trying to find a cheap fix.
    This horn may very well end up a bugle; for the last decade or so its been out of my hands and used as a decorative peice on a mantle, where it was continually abused and neglected.

    Cest la vie. :play:
    Anyway, now that I have the valves out of the horn, I'm hopeing that, at the very least, an estimate will be easier to come by.
    I'm still interested in knowing what other people have paid to have this sort of thing fixed...
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  10. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

    May 2, 2009
    Charlotte NC
    The valve casings may be warped. A friend squeezed a horn hard enough that he warped the valve casing. There is no visible damage but the valves will not go up or down. He was trying to remove a stuck main tuning slide for someone. There is no way to know what you horn may have been through as a wall hanger that caused this problem.

    I nearly had a stroke when I first freed up the valve on my Bach. I used the handle of a wooden spoon to push the valves out. Unfortunately I wasn't careful and warped the bottom of the second valve casing. It took months of using heat and cold while holding the valve in the down position and screwing the bottom valve cap on and off before it started working properly. I lost confidence in the horn for performance situations for a while as temperature changes made the valve stick. Now it works properly. I thought for a while that I was going to have to purchase another horn as back up while this horn was being repaired.

    Long story short is leave the repairs to the pros and keep the Bundy for memories. I played Bundy trumpets in jr high. I say trumpets because I went through 3 before graduating to a better quality horn. I could never keep one from coming apart at the solder points.

    Save up and watch ebay. You can get good used student and intermediate horns for a good price there. I would stay away from the chinese stuff though.

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