Chapped lips

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by crowmadic, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    Hi all

    I don't get really chapped lips but do suffer with dry lips at times I just use good old vaseline, I'm not sure If its a UK or European only product or whether it is available the States. It messy heavy gunky, smelly but it works and best of all its always in my Horn case for lubrication purposes


  2. Dorabil

    Dorabil Pianissimo User

    Jul 6, 2009
    Rhode Island
    hmmm, 53, a mere baby
  3. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Although I personally have absolutely no problem with lanolin [ I buy 100% pure liquid lanolin for various uses ... including lubricating my slides ] Burt's Bees positively contains lanolin. Too, it contains coconut oil that I've heard others are allegic to. You can check their website for confirmmation Burt's Bees - Natural Skin Care, Natural Beauty and Natural Personal Care Products

    Ed Lee
    Jackson NC
  4. Dan Gosling

    Dan Gosling New Friend

    Dec 7, 2004
    Quoting TrumpetMD
    "The physicians on the ChopSaver website are likely compensated endorsers, who are using carefully worded testimonials to avoid making any legitimate claims. This is not unique to ChopSaver, but is an approach used by many "natural/herbal" products. As a physician, I can tell you there is nothing superior about ChopSaver, and that no ethical physician would make such a claim. Go ahead and ask your own doctor or dermatologist."

    With all due respect doctor, none of these people, and let me repeat, NONE of the doctors you see quoted on our website are compensated in any way. And that goes for our musician endorsements. They have all given the product a fair trial and have based their opinions upon that trial. And please explain to me what you mean by "carefully worded"? What is carefully worded about these:

    "ChopSaver Original is the best lip balm I have ever tried, and my patients agree!"

    Or this:

    "I had some "test patients" use it for a month and give me their evaulation. I was happily surprised to find that every one of them thought ChopSaver was significantly better than what we had previously recommended. On behalf of my ACCUTANE® patients, I want to thank you for developing an excellent product!"

    These and other endorsements can be seen here:

    What Dermatologists are saying about ChopSaver

    Your assumptions and your hint that these doctors are somehow behaving in an unethical way is troubling. The fact is, most people do agree that things like shea butter, mango butter and aloe feel better and stay on the lips longer than petrolatum and its derivatives.

    As for the herbs in ChopSaver, let me quote another doctor:

    "Arnica has been used for years both as a topical ointment and as an oral supplement. Applied externally, it reduces bruising and muscle soreness. When taken orally, it helps reduce/clear bruising and speed healing after surgery or a traumatic injury. While arnica has been used for over 100 years, it has caught a lot of attention in the past decade as more recent studies have shown its benefits as a more proven certainty.
    Arnica Montana is a mountain flower that grows around the world. Its healing properties have been credited to many of the over 100 components which are found in the plant. Arnica contains a class of chemicals known as sesquiterpene lactones which have anti-inflammatory benefits. Arnica also contains antioxidant flavonoids, cartinoids, and silicic acid which all are also believed to have healing actions.
    In plastic surgery, less swelling and bruising was seen after rhinoplasty in patients who took oral arnica versus steroids in a published study in July 2007 of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. Other positive findings have been seen in facelift surgery where less bruising was observed with its use. I routinuely precribe it as a pre- and postoperative medication (one week before and after surgery) for my cosmetic surgery patients. Both patients and I have become convinced of ts beneficial properties, particularly in the more rapid resolution of bruising. As a topical ointment, I use it on facial plastic surgery patients as an adjunct to oral arnica to have the best effect on clearing bruising."
    Dr Barry Eppley
    Indianapolis Plastic Surgery - Cosmetic Surgeon, Indianapolis, Indiana, IN - Dr. Eppley
    Ology Spa | Indianapolis Medical Spa
    Clarian North Medical Center, Carmel, Indiana

    There are thousands of lip balms out there. Most of them are produced by huge companies with enormous marketing budgets. We are a small company, but if ChopSaver wasn't working better for people in a dramatic way, we would have gone out of business a long time ago.

    Respectfully submitted,

    Dan Gosling
    The ChopSaver Guy
  5. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

    Oct 22, 2008
    Before I address Dan's comments, let me sum up my views on this.
    • I believe Chopsaver is a reasonable product to use for chapped lips.
    • I also believe that all lips balms are equally effective at treating chapped lips (as do most physicians), and that there is little evidence to support claims that certain special ingredients help treat chapped lips.
    • However, one may have preference for a particular lip balm because of the way it is formulated, how it feels, how easily it rubs off, how easy it is to play the trumpet with it on, etc.
    • While I don't know Dan personally, I'm sure he's a good guy who's trying to sell a good product. However, I think there are certain medical and legal issues he doesn't understand.
    Now, let me try to address Dan's comments.

    Unique Properties of Chopsaver
    Dan's statement of that Chopsaver contains "all natural, herbs that are known for their healing properties" is correct. But I don't think Dan's understands that the medical evidence is anecdotal at best. There is no legitamate proof that these ingredients will help treat chapped lips.

    Dan's statement that Chopsaver "is now recommended by dermatologists as a superior moisturizer" is also correct, as documented on his web site. But again, I don't think Dan understands that this is misleading, because it implies medical credability that just isn't there.
    Compensated Endorsers
    I should not have used the term "compensated", because it implied money was changing hands, which it is not. However, the physician-endorsers on his web site are still being compensated through what the medical community would call "secondary gain". Let me explain.

    In the business world, it's natural to network with others in a "quid pro quo" fashion. You endorse my product, and I'll endorse yours. You send business my way, and I'll send business your way. This is fine in the business world.

    But it unethical and often illegal for physicians to do this. This is why you don't see physicians personally endoring FDA-approved medications. The last physician who did this (Dr. Robert Jarvik) received a lot of flack for endorsing Lipitor, even though what he said was true. It's just not ethical for physicians to do this.

    The physicians who are endoring Chopsaver are receiving compensation in the form of "secondary gain". For example, they are able to post their names, their pictures, the location of their medical practices, and links to their web sites. Because they are doing it for a lip balm, most medical boards would look the other way. Howiver, if they were doing this for an FDA-approved medication, they would likely get in trouble.
    Carefully Worded Testimonials
    I don't know how to answer this. The statements are indeeded "carefully worded testimonials". They are carefull not to make any actual medical claims. They instead include statements about what they personally experienced. This is the foundation for advertising "herbal" and "natrual" medications. Dan, if you really don't know what I'm talking about here, you should find a lawyer with experience in this area to help you.

    Let me give a non-medical example. On your site, someone claims that Chopsaver "...allowed me some really strong high C’s. And, it let me finish with no tired chops!"? He doesn't say it will do this for anyone else (ie, it was carefully worded to make no general claims), and he limited his comments to personal testimony. It's very easily could be untrue, but you can't proove it. IMHO, that makes it a "carefully worded testimony".
    Barry Eppley's statement
    I have already stated that there is anecdotal evidence about certain ingredients in Chopsaver. But that's it. There is no legitamate medical proof that these ingredients work for chapped lips. This includes the article Dr. Eppley referred to (Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. 2007 Jul;120(1):271-274), which was about surgical wound healing after rhinoplasty, not the treatment of chapped lips.
  6. ca5tr0

    ca5tr0 New Friend

    Feb 28, 2010
    I do not recommend anything petroleum based. All these balms do is over soften your lips to where you can not make them buzz. Iv'e gotten rid of all the balms i owned and have gotten rid of everyone of those products in my band. I took the liberty of purchasing a case of Chop saver for the use of the band. Now they don't use anything but chop saver. Before we had problems with playing during half time shows and other outside set performances. They would use their own lip balm that only hurt their playing abilities. I choked on a couple of solos because of the "other" products.
    I truly recommend Chop saver. Use it at all times, even when you have not played or going to play.

    The only other thing that has some resemblance to the results of chop saver is burt's beeswax. It's good for an emergency.
  7. kcmt01

    kcmt01 Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 25, 2009
    Polson, MT
    Well, I don't know if I believe in the concept of "cure". No doctor in history has ever healed a patient. Sure, we can kill an infection. But the body, as God designed it, cures itself over time. The question is, what helps the body heal itself the quickest? There have been times I have had to resort to Neosporin ointment because of bloody infections on my lips. But since I started using Chopsaver, it has never gotten that bad.
  8. kcmt01

    kcmt01 Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 25, 2009
    Polson, MT
    I use it for slide grease all the time. It works okay for prevention, but it gums up my valves if I try to play after I use it.
  9. kcmt01

    kcmt01 Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 25, 2009
    Polson, MT
    The original question was about which products may help chapped lips. My reply was that Chopsaver is a good product. Now the owner of Chopsaver is forced to defend his product. Thank you for agreeing at least, that it is effective. My point was that unlike lanolin based ointments, Chopsaver didn't make my lips swollen red pus-oozing wrecks. And unlike petroleum based products, it doesn't gum up my valves if I have to play after using it. And yes, it feels VERY good when my lips are tired after a gig. And finally, Chopsaver doesn't pay me for any promotional purposes. And the correct spelling is "legitimate".
  10. RandyTx

    RandyTx Pianissimo User

    Mar 26, 2010
    Central Texas
    I bought a couple tubes of Chopsaver recently to see what all the fuss was about. Let's face it, it's one of the cheapest experiments you're likely to encounter with trumpets.

    That said, about all I can say for it is it doesn't smell bad. It doesn't seem to do any more, or less than any other lip balm I've ever used. It doesn't seem to be magical at all, and frankly, doesn't last all that long. Now, this time of year here, chapped lips aren't really much of an issue, admittedly. Perhaps next fall it will be amazing me, and if so, I'll be sure and pass on the amazement here.

    I don't regret the purchase, but I won't be running around telling every musician I see how much they need some of it either. It's just a tube of lip balm.

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