Cheater pieces bad?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Jarrett, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. Jarrett

    Jarrett Piano User

    Nov 11, 2003
    Richland, MO
    Ok, this other thread reminded me of something I've been wondering about. . .

    I was working with this trumpet section from an area high school a while back as part of this collaboration between them and the band I'm part of. Anyway, all the trumpet players (high school) were playing on TINY mouthpieces... I'm talkin Bobby Shew 1, 6a4a sized stuff. And, needless to say, everything sounded terrible. I broke out my "bag o' mouthpieces" and handed out 3c's to everyone and the rehearsals sounded a ton better...

    How do you guys feel about young players playing on "cheater" pieces? As I told them, I'm not a fan of cheater mouthpieces for young players, and I recommended they find a conventional mouthpiece and stick with it for a while. (I think I even gave away a couple)
  2. trumpet_man

    trumpet_man Piano User

    Jan 17, 2008
    In my opinion they definitely don't sound as good.
  3. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

    Mar 25, 2005
    Indianapolis, In
    I guess some folks put them on them thinking that they will get more instant results. I don't know if they do or not, but the sound is usually poor. I agree with you put them on a regular piece and learn to play correctly. Maybe you need to have a discussion with their teacher as to his reasons. Probably isn't a trumpet player or brass player and would appreciate the insight.
  4. Rushtucky

    Rushtucky Pianissimo User

    Sep 15, 2008
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Most beginner students start out with a Bach 7C or a version thereof, and depending on the instructor or director, progress to a 5C, however preferably a 3C. Those with smaller lips sometimes will be put into a 10 1/2C.

    I definately do not encourage "cheaters" for students.

    As they mature they can then "experiment" with different mouthpieces. For example, my primary mouthpiece is the Bach 3C, however I will use the Bach 1 1/4C everyone in awhile.
  5. lmf

    lmf Forte User

    May 16, 2007
    Indiana USA
    What you gain on higher notes, you may lose in tone. The concept of "cheater" mouthpieces always seems to be a method to eliminate better practicing and technique which somehow doesn't seem right. Somehow, I don't believe "cheater" mouthpieces is the best plan for higher playing. Cheating appears to be a quick fix, but rarely leads to success over the long term. I may be wrong!

    Best wishes,

  6. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

    Jul 20, 2006
    Heart of Dixie
    Playing on tiny mouthpieces is never good for a developing player. Nothing wrong with a well-developed player using one to get a "sound" they're after, and/or giving themselves a little more high-range endurance with one (such as a big band gig), though.
  7. erd402

    erd402 Pianissimo User

    Mar 21, 2009
    West Virginia
    I've never liked the term cheater mouthpiece. Specialized mouthpiece being played by a cheater, although longer, I think is more appropriate. Just about everyone I know uses really big mouthpieces. No one in our band uses tiny mouthpieces, but just about everyone uses 1 1/2C's.
  8. Rushtucky

    Rushtucky Pianissimo User

    Sep 15, 2008
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    I totally agree on the use of so called "cheaters" for the upper register. It makes the tone sharp and sometimes tinny.

    However, I do endorse using the larger cup mouthpieces for select and specialized gigs. Many of those that play in a symphony will use a Bach 1 or 1C both of which produces an enormous tone, but they also require some with a good embouchure. The 1 1/4C is used by many, especially those with powerful embouchures, because it produces a powerful compact tone. It is one of my favorite mouthpieces other than the 3C.

    As stated, I do not recommend a mouthpiece with a cup size above C for student players.
  9. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    Use the right tool for the job. If a 1 1/4 C isn't cutting it for the lead parts you're playing, switch to something different.

    I knew a band director who had his lead players band use Jet Tones for Marching Band and ! 1/2 C's for concert band. Use the tool that makes the job easiest...
  10. Mamba21500

    Mamba21500 Piano User

    Feb 26, 2009
    I use a "cheater mouthpiece" along with a 7C and sometimes a Denis Wick 4 with a converter. They each do their jobs, the "cheater" is for big band work, e.g. playing high C and above a lot. The 7C is general. The DW4 is when I need a reaally really soft sound.

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