Cheater pieces bad?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Jarrett, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. Buck with a Bach

    Buck with a Bach Fortissimo User

    Dec 29, 2009
    Canton, Ohio
    I started on a 7C Bach, played it through grade school and two years of high school. My junior year I started playing lead in the stage band( dance band if you will). Came across a 10 1/2C and improved my upper register and my sound. Lips are thin and this one suited me quite well.Kept using it after out of school for my various hobby player gigs. I had a fairly good local teacher who showed me how to get a good sound out of it and never forgot the lesson. This piece went from a Reynolds Argenta, to a Bach LB Strad that had such a dark rich sound to it( how I loved that horn! Wish I still had it), then to an early Yamaha pro horn that I picked up on another restart. I got good results on all of them with it. I just went to a Marcinkeweitz CH-8 paired up with the current Bach Artist LTD-1. sounds fantastic to me given my long layoff. Used it at church for the Christmas services and about blew the windows out( small church). Small or large, theresc a lot of variables to picking a good mouthpiece for each individual player. My emboucher is weak, lips are thin, so a smaller diameter, somewhat shallower cup works for me........Buck:play::oops:
  2. Kevykev

    Kevykev Pianissimo User

    Sep 27, 2006
    St. Louis.

    I agree 100%! Who came up with the stupid ars combination of words like "cheater mouthpiece"? Like this poster said, I guess I would be "CHEATING" if I used a larger mouthpiece to play lower notes. Huh?

    This has got to be one of the stupidest terms ever used. Why can't someone just use what they want without chastisement from others? Is it that YOU can't play on a shallow piece and are jealous? I don't get it!!!

    Did Bill Chase "cheat"? Did Maynard "cheat" ? How about Cat Anderson, Bobby Shew, Jim Manley..etc..etc... They all used or currently USE small diameter shallow pieces and they all had or have a sound that could knock down a wall!! If the shoe doesn't fit then DON"T frickin wear it BUT don't knock the other guy for givin it a try!!

    I guess also there are "cheater" trumpets too. You know, the ones that claim they have an easier blow and easier high register! This is a STUPID played out thread which is BS!!
  3. lmf

    lmf Forte User

    May 16, 2007
    Indiana USA
    All I know is that the so-called "cheater" mouthpieces won't help me learn to play a violin. I feel so downhearted!
  4. Outkastah

    Outkastah Pianissimo User

    Aug 29, 2009
    It all depends on the player, I used to play on a LOUD 81M which is fairly shallow but I still had good tone and amazing range, but then I got my monette B6S1 and I noticed my sound got a lot fuller and overall better and I only lost like 1 er 2 notes which I later got back :). If the parts they where playing where going up a lot over the staff im sure the cheeters would be fine but for regular playing (Middle C- high C) I think giving them the 3c's was a good idea.
  5. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    I don't agree with the term "cheater pieces". If it works, it works.
    I would suggest the situation is more software than hardware, let me qualify.
    As for the Bobby Shew mouthpieces made by Yamaha? Reports suggest its a pretty good mouthpiece. Bobby Shew uses two different trumpet mouthpieces depending on what he wants to do.
    As for changing to larger mouthpieces and a quick result? I tend to lean toward what referred to as a "Honeymoon Period Phenomenon" where the effect is real good for a short period and then, after that period of time, the body and mind starts the long hard work of truely adjusting to a significantly different mouthpiece. The general rule for change is: It always gets worse before it gets better.
    Of course there's the other Rule of Change:
    The only change people like is the kind that jingles in their pockets.
    Time will be the arbitor on this one. If they sucked on small mouthpieces, they'll suck on large mouthpieces by Easter. However, if you work on their software, they might not suck by Easter. As for me, I use a Bach 10 1/2c and maintain a fat sound throughout all the registers I play in. Good Luck
  6. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    Jan 1, 2010
    To me small and shallow mouthpieces are very good "educational tools".

    Trying hard to produce a good sound on those "cheaters" teaches me to develope a compact, focused embouchure.
    I do a lot of mouthpiece buzzing with those "cheaters".
    Part of the lesson is to shape the embouchure to prevent from bottoming out.
    Once that is achieved you have a pretty stable and mouthpiece-independant embouchure.

    Believe it or not: I practice on a Giardinelli 17M (15mm cup diameter!) and on a Giardinelli 12S (very shallow cup) but play my gigs on a Yamaha Allen Vizzutti.

    Give that concept a try if you like.
    With me it really works great.

  7. Jarrett

    Jarrett Piano User

    Nov 11, 2003
    Richland, MO
    I think everyone's getting wrapped around the axle about the term "cheater". I used "cheater" cause that's what I always called tiny mouthpieces, no connotation intended.

    The more appropriate question would be " Are extremely small mouthpieces bad for learning (beginner) trumpet players.

    I don't think anyone seriously questions the efficiency of using the right mouthpiece for the job by a capable player.

    Happy New Year!
  8. Jarrett

    Jarrett Piano User

    Nov 11, 2003
    Richland, MO
    duplicate post
  9. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    The more appropriate question would be " Are extremely small mouthpieces bad for learning (beginner) trumpet players.
    I know of no information that supports the claim that small mouthpieces are bad for beginners. A recent post(from a different thread) says that in the 1950's all the band directors recommended Bach 10 1/2 c. Now band directors recommend mouthpieces larger than a Bach 7 c.
    I would suggest that learning good playing habits are more important than the hardware.
  10. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    I second Markie's comment on how good playing habits are more important than the hardware. While I agree that there isn't any hard evidence that small mouthpieces are bad for beginning trumpet players, I will state that some mouthpieces are bad for some players, and that there shouldn't be a single "I want all my trumpet players using BrandX/SizeY mouthpieces" since no two people have the same lip size/shape/contour and for some players a smaller mouthpiece might be better while a larger mouthpiece may well be better for others starting at the same time.

    The equipment needs to fit the player or the player will be spending too much time figuring out how to make his/her body fit the equipment instead of simply playing the instrument.

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