Chemical cleaning

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by SteveRicks, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. shofarblaster

    shofarblaster New Friend

    10
    2
    Sep 15, 2012
    Vista CA.
    Very helpful posts. As a begginer player and collector this helps alot. Thanks!
     
  2. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Aren't lime and calcium carbonate the same? Seems to me some natural sources of water have varying amounts of lime, or as a mountain country acclimated boy I was told was "sweetwater". Subsequently, I've been told that most urban water treatment plants do nothing to remove it as it softens the water and helps neutralize the acidity in metal pipe systems. Nope, you're not drinking distilled and de-ionized chemical reagent grade pure H2O, even in a hospital.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  3. flyntptman

    flyntptman New Friend

    14
    2
    Oct 5, 2012
    Indonesia
    What does the baking soda and salt do for the cleaning process?

    Since I was planning on using vinegar I am a bit weary about using vinegar baking soda and salt since the baking soda is a base and the vinegar is an acid they will just counteract each other correct?
     
  4. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    One or the other, soda or vinegar, it really doesn't matter which. All you're doing is setting up a chemical electrolysis. I just believe the vinegar does more to remove odors, its own as dissipates quickly. I know, I know baking soda absorbs odors as well, but just doesn't do as well on nicotine staining found in some preowned that is acquired.
     
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,118
    9,278
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Iron rusts by exposure to moisture in the air, oxygen. Silver does pretty much the same thing, but rather tarnishes as a result of silver combining with sulfur from skin protein rather than oxygen. The aluminum takes the hit for the silver, and the salt water allows the electrons to move between the silver and aluminum when the silver is in direct contact with the aluminum.

    3Ag2S(s) + 2Al(s)+ 3H2O(l) => 6Ag(s) + Al2O3(s) + 3H2S(aq)

    The reaction can be done without the baking soda, but it takes longer; however the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) hastens the reaction by reacting with the H2S:

    3 NaHCO3(aq) + 3 H2S(aq) => 3 NaHS(aq)+3 H2O(l)+ 3 CO2(g)

    Adding baking soda, takes H2S out of solution which drives the reaction more to the right and therefore to completion. The CO2 gas is expelled which continues to drive the reaction.
     
  6. flyntptman

    flyntptman New Friend

    14
    2
    Oct 5, 2012
    Indonesia
    Ok. More info than I can understand at this time. But I will try one and then the other on different pieces and see what happens.
     
  7. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

    3,444
    1,154
    Aug 15, 2009
    Alabama
    Hey Gmonady. Great job on the chemistry. we need to keep this thread marked for others in the future that ask about this.

    It seems like there ought to be a way to use a battery - like 1.5 v or 9 v to touch one lead to the aluminum or horn and one to the water and really move the reaction along. Just don't want to confuse myself and remove silver. thoughts?
     
  8. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Steve, it's just my thought that you may push the threshhold to far and begin electroplating the aluminum with silver. It very vague now, but I remember electroplating a penny with silver from a dime this way.
     

Share This Page