Clarifying on this range technique?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by JackTheMusician, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    how do you know at what range I am at currently?? ----- you keep up your bragging and I will contact Eddie and get a real audition --- with the piano and saxophone player as my judges --- (they both like me better than you anyhow) ROFL ----- I say PHWOOOEEEE on your PooPwhoooo technique --- you make these young kids think this is going to happen overnight ---- and they don't often realize you've been playing for over 5 decades ------------------------ uhm, I can play the asymmetric better than anyone in the country ----- you keep forgetting, I can play ALL the charts you sent me also ------- so there
     
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    For 4 hours... Really?
     
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Tine Thing is much younger than I (albeit not as good looking) and has learned to do this in less than half the time. And also no asymmetric for her but a Bach 1C. -- so there!
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Gary, nothing is fair in life and many things are clear after we are there. I try to be careful with visualisations. If we want a crisp attack to a sustained note, then phwooooooeeeeeeee is not so easy to visualize, it sounds more like a rollercoaster ride.

    I am not criticizing the method as it does not apply to what I do or teach. I also have spent no time with it as what I do and teach also work. If we are honest, we know that it is not the method rather the process that gets us from A to B. Well developed chops and intellect are very confusing to those at a different stage of development. I am confused and have at least the well developed chop part.

    Write a detailed post on the process of phoooey. Where you were before, how you started, how long it took, what else that you had to change.

    By the way, Tine describes the way she plays much differently. Where did you find a connection to phwooooeeey?

    By the second way, you buzz too. The trumpet has a standing wave that modulates our lips. No modulation, no sound. We need vibration to set up the standing wave, then the horn/lip system works as a whole.You may visualize something else, but the physics are VERY CLEAR here. Better playing means becoming more efficient. That means more sound from less buzz - not maximum sound from no buzz.
     
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    You kind of answered part of my response in your ending comment. I buzzed most of my life, and was successful making it through symphony concerts, marching band sessions, jazz band recitals, wedding gigs, club performances.... that is until I started playing with the Eddie Brookshire organizations. His charts are so demanding that I was just not making it well through a four hour gig with his bands. So I practiced more... as much as I could on a busy daily schedule that I had... That wasn't cutting it. So I fell into the Phwooooo technique, not by calculated change but by chance and found it to work very well... It provided as you noted more efficiency.

    The trade off, is it does effect the traditional attack. The crispness in my playing has transitioned to a more smooth attack. Of course I can get the crispness back by using the buzz sparingly, but I really must say, I love the softer sound I can get. Phwoooo also lends the mouth musculature to use more upper groups of muscle that attaches to the zygomatic arch (not the traditional distal jaw) and this opens the embouchure more giving me a (dare I say it) darker sound. So just a simple change from buzzzzzz to Phwoooo has made a major change in my sound.... and did so overnight, and not requiring the many months to recover from a major embouchure change.

    Its a choice. It works for me out of necessity. But it is a choice. The buzz will work for most, but when it doesn't, it's nice to know there is an alternative that works easily, and well. Thanks to for your comment prompting this response, as I hope it provides insight to those who are confused by this small, subtle but unique change in how we can attack the mouthpiece and develop an alternative approach to starting a standing wave.
     
  6. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    JackTheMusician, it is true that the aperture (the opening between our lips) is smaller for quiet playing and for playing higher, but is easier if we look at it as a symptom of good playing rather than the cause. We can, however, isolate and train the aperture. We do this by spending a portion of our time playing softly (a bigger portion during marching season to counteract all the loud playing we are doing. "Ghost Tones," where we take a note (say, for example, g in the staff) and without tonguing, play it so softly that the sound really doesn't leave the bell--it will get trapped inside and not project.

    This is really hard to do!

    To learn the feeling, practice decrescendos with the sound going down to nothing. If the note stops, keep trying until you get it down to next to nothing. When you get this down, try the original exercise.

    Not to worry--soft playing requires more embouchure strength than playing loudly, but this exercise really teaches efficiency and still works with a a more classical "Tü" release of the note.

    This way you don't have to start all over at square one. For the most part I advocate evolution rather than revolution in playing, and practicing Ghost Tones will contribute to the evolution of your playing.

    Experiment, and have fun!
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    This is Tine's description of her technique at 22:25. It is basically Phwoooo into the mouthpiece.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJT-ItIAvcA&feature=youtu.be&t=21m56s

    Phwoooo... It's that easy, no detail is necessary, other than to note that eeey at the end of your use of phwoooo would be counter productive as this goes back to a buzz embouchure. Feel the muscles in your face when saying phwoooo then when feeling eeeey. Muscle use switches from upper face to lateral face where the buzz is sustained, and this is where you begin loosing efficiency.
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    The timing is perfect, as we are coming up to Halloween.
     
  9. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    A good time to practice the "boo" attack.
     
  10. FireandAir

    FireandAir Pianissimo User

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    It does seem like it still ends up turning into a buzz, though. She's just using the mouthpiece as an anchor to shape her lips into the proper "vibrating dam." I guess this is a difference between buzzing with your mouth and then just putting the mouthpiece up to it, and using the mouthpiece itself to buzz. In the end, a buzz is still the result.
     

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