Clarifying on this range technique?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by JackTheMusician, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, it is a buzz. The thing is, that if we are leveraging the instrument correctly, it is almost self sustaining. There are several ways to get there Gary has Phwoooey and I have a relaxed exhale with much reduced face tension. I'll bet the biggest difference is the visualisation.

    4 hour gigs, or 2 hour performances with a full dress rehearsal the same day are not a problem - even if the going is hard and high. I am 58 and have been playing since I was 10. Most of what I do today I learned in my early 20s. The rest is just shedding..... Toooey and Koooey instead of Phwoooey
     
  2. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    I think the original argument was that I WAS NOT AT YOUR RANGE.
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    No doubt in anyone's mind -- she is DEFINITELY better looking - I could teach her to be better on an Asymmetric mpc -- absolutely I can
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    It's simple. Try it. You will find you can do this without buzzing. Try it.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Gary,
    I think that there is a basic flaw in the visualisation. I don't care if you call it a buzz or not, the physics of the trumpet make it a monostable circuit.
    What is monostable circuit? - Definition from WhatIs.com

    We need an initial vibration to jumpstart the standing wave. Once the trumpet is resonating, our lips vibrate sympathetically at the resonant frequency of the horn. There is ALWAYS AN INITIAL VIBRATION OF THE LIPS TO START THE TONE!

    Lip vibrations - Institute of Music Acoustics (Wiener Klangstil)

    I have no trouble with visualizations that lead to less tension. It is a fact that embouchure is fine motor activity and when we remove armstrong, minute amounts of embouchure tension translate into big changes of pitch. The initial sound however requires monostable behaviour with a specific embouchure set to determine the first pitch played.

    No vibration (in common terms-buzz), no sound.
     
  6. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    My concern with Phwooo is articulation, I can't really see how it works when you need something to be very crisp, say a military call or the start of a march etc, I don't want to sound as though I am casting nasturtiums but is it one of those things that is good for jazz but perhaps not so useful ass a tuuuuuu (look at Greg Spence and his elongated tooooo sound and "non buzz" ideas) It does sound to me as though you are using a breath attack with a relaxed visualisation.
     
  7. JackTheMusician

    JackTheMusician Pianissimo User

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    I quite clearly haven't mastered the technique allready, im just saying I understand how it works.
     
  8. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Reverting to the OP.

    The clip posted essentially proposes that you should execute an ascending interval primarily with 'more air' minimising any shift in aperture.

    My kneejerk response to this would be to refer to Arban, but here is a problem. In the text (page 37 in mine) Arban says "Particular attention has been given to those exercises which are produced by movements of the lips alone.....", yet the following exercises (at least the slow ones) are marked with crescendo to ascend indicating (I guess) that you should blow the note up into the next partial against a relatively steady aperture.

    It certainly feels easier to me to use abdominals rather than lip for ascents but is it as black and white as that?
     
  9. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Can you explain the physics here?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1etIeZFm14
    This fella is playing without any lips, and is able to maintain an airflow that allows vibratory waves to move sound through the trumpet just fine... in a bibbity-bobbity-boo version of Phwooo. (Not Phwoooeeey which would defeat the purpose of Phwoooooo).

    When I Phwooooo and directly place the trumpet to the mouthpiece, there is no lip buzzing what so ever, as my use of upper diagonal muscle does not allow the configuration to adequately buzz. When I take the horn away from a sustained note, there is no buzz to my lips. If the Toyota guy can do it without buzzing, why not the GM guy? I am really not convinced that buzzing is necessary to play the trumpet.
     
  10. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Articulation is improved with Phwooo. Use of upper diagonal muscles gives more fine motor control of the orbicularis muscle as there are more insertions and attachments spread over more space across the zygomatic arch (the bone under the eye orbits) with these muscle groups. Try it. Do an upward corner smile. Then try a buzzing corner smile. Do you feel it? Less constraint, more flexibility in the smile, better articulation.

    PM me and I will send you mp3s of my playing fast bebop lines that span multiple octaves withing fraction of seconds and let me know if you think my articulation suffers.
     

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