Coming Back after 45 years

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by artiep2, May 9, 2009.

  1. artiep2

    artiep2 New Friend

    Jan 12, 2009
    I was a Cichowicz/Herseth accolyte in the late '50s. Worked with them for 6 years. Couldn't make a living so I went into business in '64 and never looked at a trumpet until August '08.
    I work with a CSO player, Alan Dean and Jay Lichtman of the Hartford Symphony. I practice 4 hours a day, play in severl orchestras and have my sights set on a chair in one of Connecticut's professional orchestras. Pipe dream? maybe, but it's a goal.
    In my day you had 1 mouthpiece (a Bach 1C), never sweat embouchure, worked hard and let it happen. Things are complicated today. Between TCE and BE, the pivot system, and the fact that everyone has at least 50 mouthpieces, it seems like its gotten overly complicated. Neither Bud or Vince EVER gave a second thought to embouchure, they just played.
    So I'm an old goat in a new environment, and from what I observe, the general principles I learned are the gold standard. The search for perfection that inspires all of the embochure changes and product purchases seems to have produced generations of confused, dissatisfied, ever-changing players. The great ones share one thing in common they work hard and trust in their instincts.
    After 8 months I play pretty well. Got an E above C, can do some hard stuff on piccolo, and sound pretty good according to those who I work with. Let's see if the old guy has it right - simple is better.
    Best Regards,
  2. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Whew, 45 years! Makes you wonder if you can give up speaking for 45 years and immediately start screaming at refs at basketball games. I'm surprised I could remember the fingerings of a C major scale after 12 years off.

    Like you, I find all of these methods and embouchures and mpc's facinating and have been lucky enough to find help from a Herseth disciple and some Adam guys who think little of embouchure and got me working on sound, which, strangely enough, is what we produce. If relaxing the lips gets me going in the right direction-- and you have to wonder how the Bergerons / Faddiss / Soloffs / Grahams of the world can play so well for so long without tiring-- maybe not working as hard as some guys/gals to get their sound out is to relax while doing what we do and focus on something other than one's lips. It's conceptual, but that's my observation and what has helped me more than any of the BE's, Callets, Stevens, Carusos. Good luck in your quest, and continue to share in your progress.

    Ed - Ed Mann - 52 - Male - LA, California -
  3. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    Welcome to TrumpetMaster Artiep2

    Enjoy your time here!

    Welcome back to your old mistress too!
  4. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    G'day from Oz, welcome to TM. When I came back after 37 yrs I had to re-learn music notation, scales, embouchure, fingerings et al , but like you I'm getting there WaLBoL. (With a Little Bit of Luck).
  5. Brass crusader

    Brass crusader Mezzo Piano User

    Welcome back!
  6. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

    Mar 25, 2005
    Indianapolis, In
    Welcome to TM, and frankly Herseth and Cichowicz were right.
  7. artiep2

    artiep2 New Friend

    Jan 12, 2009
    Bud was regarded as arrogant. That perception grew from the simple thing that made him great, the notion that making mistakes or playing badly, was not possible. His supreme self confidence led people to that conclusion. Nothing could be further from the truth. He preached that you played with what God gave you and don;t sweat the small stuff, like: being afraid of high notes "if you think you might have a problem, you will", difficult technical passages, "hear the music and play it" etc. It was frustrating to deal with him because, frankly, on a technical level he couldn't teach his way oout of a paper bag. That's wherre Vince came in, and that was a rivalry you could write volumes about. When you went to Bud you had to have the technical stuff down pat. You had to be prepared to mimic his playing and interpretation. If you got hung up on a breathing issue or something and asked him to help you he'd say "go see Vince and come back when you figure it out". I've carried these nuggets of wisdom with me throughout my life and they've helped me in business, golf, and every other problem solving issue I've had to deal with. ONe horn, one mouthpiece, the embochure you were born with (assuming it wasn't funky and produced a good sound - the only criteria he cared about), and a commmitment to work your tail off. As I obsereve all that has evolved in my absence, it seems clear to me that the generations are looking for cures, when the answer is as plain as the lips on their faces. Who on earth could have a more profound case of messed up chops than Bud? I saw a photo he showed me of his embouchure after his car accident. Don't ask, yet that was early in his career, and he came back better than ever.
    I guess I'm done for now.
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006

    The question that comes to mind is if Bud Herseth as a youngster with that attitude would even have a chance to get accepted into a decent music school or orchestra today. Most professors WANT the student to be concerned about the small stuff.

    You are dead right about the answers being centuries old! For those that refuse to accept this, we have plenty of opportunities in the forums here!

    Let me close by saying that there is a bit of truth in all of the systems. That is what makes them so dangerous!
  9. mrmusicnotes

    mrmusicnotes Piano User

    Nov 11, 2007
    Hi Artiep,I get the feeling that your probably good at most anything you put your mind to.
    To come as far as you have in eight months after a 45 year lay-off is most impressive.Few of us have the drive and the need to succeed to such a high level that you have.Sounds like after being a successful businessman for the past 45 years your ready to put that same passion into your playing now that supporting yourself is not such an issue.All the best in reaching your goal playing pro
  10. operagost

    operagost Forte User

    Jan 25, 2009
    Spring City, PA, USA
    Bud Herseth used a 7C before his accident. You'd think that he would realize some people need to use different equipment, and that a 1C is probably not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

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