Commonality of Sunday high note epiphanies?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Local 357, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    Documentation relating to the success/failure of one system over another? That would be useless information. Many systems you don't even get to, Stamp among them, are designed to be flexible based upon the students needs and musical desires. If a student's desire isn't to play a double C, documentation might indicated that there was a failure. Does Michael Sachs fail, Gozzo, Glow, Audino? They didn't play up there, they just played magnificently. I don't get the point of your laundry list. For every system, there are hundreds of way to tailor it to hundreds of students.

    ed
     
  2. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    The post is designed for people who want to develop extreme range. If this isn't your bag? Fine. Who would have a problem with that? Not me. However if your were among those kind who struggle to play the lead book? Then you might want to have this information available.

    But your complaint is kind of irrelevant. Like asking why I didn't mention oboe instruction. This ain't an oboe forum. You can't "tailor" a system to every student if a system does not adequately describe the ins and outs of range production. You may succeed in helping a trumpet player develop good musicality but if he is among the great majority?

    Then that system will fail him in terms of range/endurance development. We're not making this up. This is a matter of record. The sorry performance of most systems guarantees that the great majority of trumpet players will not develop the necessary ability to decently cover the lead book of a standard modern big band. This doesn't mean that they will not excel in other areas. however if we're honest we must admit that the role of the strong lead trumpet player is an essential one in modern music.
     
  3. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    I don't know why I bother. It's like arguing with a mouthpiece.
     
  4. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    this is interesting concept - because I believe the Asymmetric mpc I use -- isolates the lower lip, effectively making you use more upper lip, and therefore LESS lower lip, actually isolating it on the very wide flat bottom renders the MASS of that part of the lip more or less useless in vibrating mass, and when using the upper lip (which according to some, is the vibrating mass of lip which produces most of the vibbrations needed to make sound anyhow --- hence there is a wide range of notes with little movement of the aperture, because the top is used, and the lower one is isolated -- IMHO, and also the Asymmetric developer (John Lynch) indicates that one(by using the asymmetric mpc) will reduce fatigue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  5. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    What may be happening is that by altering the position (pooching out lower lip) or placing a fat rim (such as the lynch piece) on the lower lip it forces the upper lip to stay in contact with the lower lip over a longer distance. Each effort also likely allows the aperture formation to stay very small while still keeping the vibrating mass supple.

    I never was able to get much out of the Lynch on any embouchure. However for a while while pooching out my lower lip (on the Lynch) was able to blow some ear splitting extreme register notes using even less muscle contraction than I'd normally use on just a mere G top of the staff. The problem was the only notes i could blow that way were the High G to about an octave above. Not a useful or practical technique. Fun and amusing but not useful in a musical sense.

    Nick Drozdoff recommends setting lower while playing the Lynch. In other words placing the mouthpiece a little bit more on the lower lip. This isn't the video he displays that trick but kind of interesting. Note how he doesn't use very much physical effort to play the Triple C (or whatever it is) here:

    Nick Drozdoff Plays 6 Octaves on a Trumpet - YouTube

    Whenever a trumpet player can squeak notes so high he is displaying a technique that the average cat can not do. Conversely some of those trumpet players whom while unable to squeak anywhere near as high are often able to play dramatically louder than the squeak artists.

    We think that Bud Brisbois was among that group of "squeak artists". According to Bobby Shew he "never truly got a big sound".

    wait a sec here's the exact quote:

    Some of the problems that Bud did have was that he never got a really big sound, which is because he was using the Costello pinched aperture thing. He could control the shit out of it and but couldn't get much sound and it drove him nuts.

    from: seeleymusic.com/brisbois/story

    In fairness I believe that Brisbois probably could play relatively loud but not exactly a huge tone in the extreme upper register. He used more lower lip than upper and this worked well for him at producing limitless range.

    Another interesting thing about Nick Drozdoff is his use of epoxy putty to make his own assymetric pieces out of standard mouthpieces. I had been doing this for ten years prior to learning of it. Well I wasn't exactly making assymetric pieces out of them but using the epoxy putty to shape varying cup contours and depths. The putty is a helpful way to customize yourself a mouthpiece. When you're happy with the result? Send the prototype piece to a pro shop and have them make it from solid brass.
     
  6. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    yes -- I used beeswax to make a mock-up of the trombone mpc that I wanted the local machine shop to customize for me. I have another post on TM that I hope to update in the near future. But, I took a Giddings and Webster (Kadja) stainless steel trombone mpc (yeah a $150 piece) -- and had the machine shop weld a "similiar" piece of Stainless steel in the mpc (and polish it smooth of course). The 20% of filler, reduces the overall size of the cup for me -- but having the largest bore, or at least the deepest mpc they make -- still seems to produce a very even and decent tone. I don't have any quantitative "endurance" assessments at the moment -that it may provide (only had it for a day). Hopefully it will help support my lower lip --- and allow greater flexibility on the trombone, and less aperture movement -- such as the Asymmetric has done for my trumpet.
    NONETHELESS -- the concept of Asymmetric, and small aperture movements is working for me on the trumpet, and the trombone seems to be a great asset, in loosening up, or strenghtening the chops / face muscles to hold that aperture together --or the trombone provides MORE air support --- but whatever the case --- the trombone seems to have helped make the range on the tumpet -- louder, and easier. But, as I say -- it is only 3 and a half years on a comeback -- and the High F on the trumpet is the max, daily reproducible, playable note that I have - with decent volume. Seems, I had a high A last summer, but it didn't have the volume, and consistency that I hoped for --- PERHAPS by the end of summer, or early fall -- I can be back there. RANGE and playable range, doesn't happen over night.

    on a side note ---- I seem to have the same "equivalent" range on the trombone (6 months of practice on the trom) -- so equivalent to a high F that the trumpet has --- albeit, since the mpc I have been using (an Olds 3 from a 1940 ish Olds Ambassador tenor trom) - that mpc is really too big for me ------ and although I have the equivalent notes -- for various reasons -- I can't hold them as long as I can on the trumpet ---- --it is all good though!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012

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