copper belled flugels

Discussion in 'Horns' started by music matters, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. music matters

    music matters Pianissimo User

    219
    1
    Apr 26, 2004
    ON Canada
    Does the Custom Class Flugel with copper bell have the same bell as the Signature?...or is it smaller, ie the same size as the standard Custom Class bell but just in copper? If anyone has played the CCF, CCF with copper bell and Signature Flugel and can say what the differences are that would be interesting. I notice that the Signature is a slightly larger bore than the CC so presumably it has different playing characteristics. What are these?
     
  2. King High

    King High New Friend

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    0
    Feb 19, 2004
    The Custom bell is smaller than the Signature. copper or not.
    the Signature is the richest of all, imo. I like the Custom with copper so well, it's the only way I've ever ordered it, so I can't compare the brass to the copper. It's warm and mellow, sweet. The bore is larger on the Signature, slightly, I'm not too sensitive to that.
     
  3. JACKKANSTUL

    JACKKANSTUL Pianissimo User

    To compare the signature to the Custom can not be done. They are two different horns. The signature has been recorded on by all the greats. Claudio Roditi plays exclusively on the signature and has for well over a decade. The signature is used by almost half of the Hollywood studio musicians. As one great artist told me it is unbelievable! It has a DEEP THROATED sound that no other flugel can produce. Studio engineers always ask what's that horn, it has an incredible sound. If you don't believe me try one in the studio. The studio never lies. It picks up everything. While the copper definitely helps the sound it is the DESIGN that makes the difference. Other companies have tried to copy it but have not succeeded. After all, you can not copy a tapered tube. Not exactly. You have to know how to do it. As I've said before, my father reserves the right to only offer everything he knows and all the nuances to his exclusive signature line. If you would like to give one a try give me a call. I always keep them in stock for you and give them my exclusive Lifetime Warranty and Try Before You Buy. That way you are not taking any chances and are totally covered forever.

    To Kanstul instruments and Kanstul Music-Nobody does it better.

    Jack Kanstul
     
  4. trptbenge

    trptbenge Pianissimo User

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    Jan 15, 2004
    Atlanta
    Jack, I can't say how it records but I second your comments. I was in Capitol Music (a Kanstul dealer) with my original trumpet teacher and friend for over 36 years, about 5 months ago. He was there to get b flat trumpet. However, since Capitol had several flugelhorns in stock we took the time and did a comparison of the different flugelhorns. Sam stopped playing and teaching twenty years ago and just got back playing and practicing seriously about 4 or 5 years ago. So, he had never played or heard of the 1525.

    We worked our way through the different flugelhorns. from worst to best they were: a Blessing (did not like), a Jupiter (not bad at all), Kanstul Chicago (nice player), Courtois and Sandoval Leblanc (both were excellent and we rated them on the same level). Finally, I handed the 1525 to Sam without any build up. He said there is no contest. This one is far superior.... and it was. It is really hard to beat the 1525. I haven't found a flugelhorn that I like as well.

    However, as we all know, life is sometimes choices and compromises. Is it worthwhile to an average player, who may only play a flugelhorn four or five times a year, to spend the substantial money that many dealers are asking for the 1525??? That is the question I keep asking myself. The CC 925 might be the best answer. Would I like the 1525? Sure, I would be lying if I said I didn't. I haven't convinced myself that the investment is worth it. I am still thinking about it.

    Gee, if money were no object! If I hit the 150 Million dollar Lottery Jackpot on Tuesday it won't be. But, I am not holding my breath.

    Mike
     
  5. music matters

    music matters Pianissimo User

    219
    1
    Apr 26, 2004
    ON Canada
    Thanks for all of your comments. The reason I ask is that I am looking to buy a flugel and a friend lent me his Signature and I wondered how the Copper CC sounded in comparison as I live somewhere where it is hard to test horns. Thank you though Jack for your kind offer to try them. I am going on holiday this summer to the UK and Canada so I am going to try to play as many flugels as possible. It will be a second instrument for me as a bit of fun and change but hopefully i will get the opportunity to play it in Big Band and Jazz Combos. Playing the Arban with it is lovely as well.

    I do not have any other flugels to compare the Signature to but I have really enjoyed playing it and it has a lovely sound - warm, sweet - I am giving it back tonight and I will miss it!
     
  6. jman

    jman New Friend

    22
    0
    Apr 2, 2004
    Denver, Colorado
    A buddy of mine just got two flugels in to try. A signature and a custom. They are most definitely two different horns. I must say that the signature had a HUGE, warm and dark tone that really impressed me (probably due to the copper bell). The tone center was nice as well. At any rate, the custom sounded great too, but I must say it played very differently. Unfortunately he's the one getting the horn. :x At any rate, good luck with the flugels.

    john
     
  7. dcstep

    dcstep Mezzo Piano User

    684
    3
    Nov 27, 2003
    Denver
    Music Matters, I'm a little concerned that a B1 player, with it's brilliant, sparkling, radiant tone, will really be happy with a dark, tromboney (in the best sense of that word) flugel that results from these big copper bells.

    Don't get me wrong, "dark" and "round" is a valid sound concept, particularly for a flugel specialist, like Roditti. A "classic" flugel tone is much lighter and really blends well in a brass ensemble or in unison with a tenor sax. I think a Schilke B1 and a Kanstul Signature flugel will be like night and day.

    Many will be able to shift gears between the two horns, just be aware that they're at the opposites ends of the tone continuum. If you double, then be ready for a shift as you move between them.

    Dave
     
  8. music matters

    music matters Pianissimo User

    219
    1
    Apr 26, 2004
    ON Canada
    Hi Dave,

    I find that the Schilke can be very warm if I want it too, but brighter when I step on it. I would say that generally the Schilke B1 with my GR3M is warmer than my old Yamaha 6335HS2.

    I come from the British Brass Band scene originally where I played Cornet and prefer the sound of a dark rich flugel. I have only played the Kanstul Signature at present so have nothing to compare it too so am looking forward to trying loads out this summer! I play Cornet still for fun and my GR Cornet #7 has more volume than the GR3FL (I may go for the 3FD instead which is probably a similar volume to my Cornet piece) and when I was trying out the Flugel didn't seem to have any problem swopping between that and the trumpet, maybe this is because I am used to swopping between trumpet and cornet in practice.

    I definitely want the Flugel to sound different from my trumpet but all the attributes that I love about the Schilke, light to hold, responsive, feels alive in your hands etc I would like to have in a Flugel as well, which is probably impossible!

    I am going to have loads of fun trying to find one that fits me though!

    Cheers,
    Graham.
     
  9. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Graham, from what we're reading about the introduction of Leigh's new Eclipse flugel... get ye downe to olde Dunstable towne and talk to Leigh. He just "might" have the flugel of your dreams.
     
  10. chetbaker

    chetbaker Pianissimo User

    138
    0
    Nov 17, 2003
    GEORGIA
    Dave,
    As you can see by my signature I play a Schilke B1L trumpet and a Kanstul 1525 copper-bell flugel. I have read many of your posts regarding the combining of the proper mouthpiece when switching from one bore-size trumpet to another...such as your former Shew vs. your Selmer. Well the same "theory" can apply to flugels as well. Yes...I LOVE bright!!! But by playing the very dark sounding 1525 it allows me to use shallower flugel pieces which is MUCH to my liking! A flugel piece such as a Warburton or Curry with a FLM cup does brighten up the 1525 to a degree..BUT...the imprtant thing is it still sounds like a flugel. When I used these type pieces on a Yamaha 731/631 they made the horn sound like an overgrown cornet, or sometimes even trumpet-like. Also...since I tend to use very shallow trumpet pieces so, by using the shallower flugel piece, it makes the switch back and forth MUCH easier. I don't have to think about "switching gears" as you stated above. I always had a VERY hard time going from an extra shallow trumpet piece to a more conventional-depth flugel piece. This "theory" may not work for everyone but it has for me over the past 30 years, or so! My 2 cents...FWIW!

    Butch
     

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