Copper or cheated?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by crowmadic, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    7,797
    2,356
    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    What sort of tone do you get out of the Statue of Liberty? - Does she have an obvious standing wave? - Wow, Gustav Eiffel was one cool dude. ;-)
     
  2. glorybe

    glorybe Piano User

    279
    19
    Jul 29, 2009
    The overwhelming quality of horn material is hardness. The second quality is consistency of the material. For example there is a recent discovery that the highly valued Stradivarius violins were made from wood infested with a certain virus resulting from a climatic challenge. The effect of the virus was to eliminate hard spots in the wood creating a much more consistent surface for sound amplification. Right now deliberate use of such a virus is under study for violin making.
    Obviously in working metals making certain that the metal is the same thickness and hardness throughout the horn has been almost a black magic or accidental happening in the past. Brass, being easy to machine, has been more likely to have some sort of consistency in production than materials that are more difficult to work with. This probably explains the use of immersion to near absolute zero in attempts to improve horns. The results of deep cold are most likely proof that the over all hardness of the material has been normalized.
    I made no remarks as to braces and how they effect sound and do not want to confuse the issues.
    There are blind studies that point to the fact that experts can not normally tell when materials in horns' bells are changed. Although artisans in the industry may wish things were a certain way science is not yielding the same answers.
     
  3. Bachstul

    Bachstul Mezzo Forte User

    744
    2
    Jan 25, 2009

    rofl rofl rofl rofl
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,955
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Glorybe,
    I do not know where you get this misinformation. It is still the same BS when you repost it after a month. I would appreciate you letting me know who spreads such lies. People that I mentioned to you before like Renold Schilke proved and published exactly the opposite. Your blind studies with no reference to who, when or where must have been by deaf people. They may have been experts, but from the Consumers Union, not a musicians union!

    I am not interested in this type of BS. Divulge your source. I have been studying this for 40 years. It would be hard to believe that this "escaped me" where exactly the opposite is easily available for all that care to look.

    The theory of the wood virus in the Stradivarius was disproved long ago. Repeating the original false hypothesis does not make it more true, it just prolongs a lie.
     
  5. Ed Kennedy

    Ed Kennedy Forte User

    1,101
    328
    Nov 18, 2006
    Re: Copper or cheated? B1 vs B5

    The main difference between the B1 and B5 is the shape of the bell. The B1 has a larger taper throught the throat and flare. The Schilke copper bells are electroformed (plated to a mandrel) 99% copper- 1% beryllium(sp?) alloy. So, if you have a yellow brass B1 and a copper B5 there are several variables involved. If there is a little B stamped on the bell ferrule, then it is a light weight copper bell. The Beryllium in the alloy adds tensile strength which allow the bells to be very thin without collapsing, yet a third possible variable.
     
  6. glorybe

    glorybe Piano User

    279
    19
    Jul 29, 2009
    I believe the article on the wood virus was published last week. It may have been posted on Slashdot.org.. As for the bell materials research that was done by the famous Adolf Sax..
    As a matter of fact you could easily set up a blind test yourself with any trumpet made with changeable bells. Simply have a player in another room who can not be seen by any listener play with different bells and have your trumpet playing friends write down which bell was in use.
    The world has seen this before. Wine testing has been almost debunked to the point of being a total joke when the most famous wine testers could not tell premium, classic wines from low priced, super market junk.
    The point being that industries often have "experts" that simply are anything but knowledgeable. And even when instruments are used to inspect diamonds almost all of us have seen leading diamond dealers totally fooled by imitations. The truth can be quite illusive.
     
  7. trumpetman1989

    trumpetman1989 New Friend

    Age:
    28
    32
    0
    Oct 6, 2009
    Eugene, OR 97404
    I haven't thought about that... How would I try to get a tone?

    ROFL
     
  8. glorybe

    glorybe Piano User

    279
    19
    Jul 29, 2009
    How does one blow the statue of liberty? I don't know but if you get it right she'll hit a high note for you!
     
  9. trumpetman1989

    trumpetman1989 New Friend

    Age:
    28
    32
    0
    Oct 6, 2009
    Eugene, OR 97404
    Glorybe.... As was said earlier in this thread, you really need to do your homework because last I checked, the Statue of Liberty was a woman, and cannot be blown.

    And only I have the available equipment to make her hit that high note :oops:
     
  10. glorybe

    glorybe Piano User

    279
    19
    Jul 29, 2009
    I've blown it with many females. I even got hate mail from one date! But these days how do we know if the statue is really female. We can't even decide if Olympic runners are actually females these days.
    I guess it is like the copper issue. A few years back the word gold was deliberately misused to indicate gold color rather than precious metal. Using that logic I suppose if you build a tin trumpet and spray it with copper colored lacquer than it must be OK to call it a copper trumpet.
     

Share This Page