Coprion question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by ConnDirectorFan, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Much of the ring (or absence) depends on where, with what and how hard you strike it. Too, it also depends on the tightness of the bell bead wrap. The true ping can only be heard on a bell that has not been repaired. Also, this ping may not register / resonate true on any musical note. It is not a tuned chime.
     
  2. Clarkvinmazz

    Clarkvinmazz Forte User

    1,584
    1,036
    May 11, 2013
    Oberlin, Ohio
    My getzen copra temp (yes yes I know it's not coprion but it's close!) Has a definite thud. Much different than my other horns. This however could be in part due to the tone ring around the bell.
     
  3. ConnDirectorFan

    ConnDirectorFan Fortissimo User

    3,504
    1,240
    Nov 5, 2010
    United States
    The bell in question that thuds has a standard rolled rim that has been smashed flat a few places and has a tiny crack in one spot, but the lacquer, lack of any seam, red/copper color down the bell w/flashlight (identical to Franklin bell in every respect except the thin rim and clunk sound), all make it seem like electroformed copper.
    The projection/clarity seem fine to me but I can't say how much "better" it is, copper or not...the recording should be under way this week
     
  4. ATrumpetDude

    ATrumpetDude Piano User

    341
    484
    Sep 15, 2015
    I'm curious if people feel that a bell with a nice clear ring when struck translates to a better sounding trumpet when played. I have seen people use this as a selling feature for horns but I haven't necessarily seen that borne out in my experience playing different horns.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,617
    7,966
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    In my experience the thud or not is only evidence of a thud or not. I have horns with a ping that come alive in my hands, and ones with a thud that do the same. I think that a ringing bell will color the sound not so much directly as in changing the feedback to the player whose brain then modifies what it hears to what it wants.

     
  6. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    5,333
    4,734
    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    I think ideally, a bell should give off 'white noise' when struck. And most seem to approximate to this.

    Any resonant preference for e.g. A = 440 Hz is going to cause real problems when you're off that tuning standard, or expecting Ab and Bb etc. to sound equally resonant.
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,617
    7,966
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    If I am playing in a studio setting or outdoors, I want a bell that is very "leaky" so that I can hear myself properly. If I am in a nice hall, I want less feedback, but more "presence" so that the room explodes with my sound. That makes pingy things nice in the studio and thuddier stuff more preferable for me in the concert hall. The bell will ring differently and no where nearly as consistently when hit with a large area soundwave than with a plastic lighter.

     
  8. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

    8,223
    7,637
    Jul 20, 2006
    Heart of Dixie
    Yes, copper bells have a reputation for carrying better, with less feedback. I have to remember that when playing mine so as not to overblow it.
     
  9. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    1,243
    782
    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    The only thing I use for pinging the bell, as I have found very good performers which ring and some which thud, is for tuning. I forget where I read the trick, but you can match the front end resonance with the back end by pinging the bell, then pull out the tuning slide and re-insert only the top leg, and blow through it while pushing in slowly until it matches the ping or thud pitch. Mark the insertion, then measure it and divide by half, that's the amount you should pull the crook out. This is usually a quarter to a third of an inch and works on all of my horns, from the '90s Yammie to the '20s Conn's to the Harrelson Summit C.
     
  10. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    All very true that environment affects the "ping" test and general playability, but when I'm doing the pinging of such I use an xylophone hammer which I've no idea how a pair ended up in a trumpet case passing through my hands on its way to New Orleans musicians as were victims of Katrina, and then ended up in one of my tool boxes, but we did have to clean up our messes.
     

Share This Page