Current thinking on tuners

Discussion in 'Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other' started by curlydoc, Oct 18, 2018.

  1. adc

    adc Mezzo Forte User

    Age:
    72
    851
    552
    Jan 12, 2017
    Elizabethtown, Pa.
    When I am warmed up I play I play about 5Hz high (C on trumpet)
     
  2. fels

    fels Piano User

    390
    204
    Jun 8, 2008
    Colorado Springs
    one of my side pursuits is to learn how to tune our piano - Mason Hamlin small grand - I find it has helped my ability to hear and adjust.
     
    J. Jericho likes this.
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    62
    17,502
    9,260
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Is it you (not normal), or simply the warmed up horn (normal) that is 5 Hz higher?
     
  4. adc

    adc Mezzo Forte User

    Age:
    72
    851
    552
    Jan 12, 2017
    Elizabethtown, Pa.
    Yea..not well thought out coment. I only noticed it on a horn that I just bought, With the slide in it played just about spot on. After I warm up its noticably higher. So I need to try a couple more horns to see what is going on.

    One would think as a horn warms up it would player slightly lower. That may be over simplistic. I am glad it doesnot play lower as it (or I) warms up. BC there is not slide to adjust. Not a major problem though. My horn guy says about 30 bucks to shorten the slide.
     
  5. breakup

    breakup Forte User

    1,084
    581
    Jun 19, 2015
    Central Pa.
    About 9 years ago we volunteered to "store" a 5'-7" grand for our church, we had the movers set it up in our living room. Shortly after that I said "That window will never look right without a piano in it." we have 2 windows that are just the same in our LR, so I started looking and found a Baldwin model R, and bought it. The piano was almost 200 miles away and I didn't have time to go look at it, so I said to the man who picked it up for me, "If it isn't what is shown in the listing just say "Thanks but no-thanks," and come home. I got a call that Saturday and the man said "You're going to love it." Shortly after I got it, I was walking past it and heard it go "ping" and I knew exactly what it was. The next day found the key that was out and I called the tuner, (he also went to get it.) and he came out and re-tuned the piano. While he was doing it he said "This is an old piano (built in 1911) and it's going to need a lot of attention. You should get the tools and learn to tune it yourself," so I did. I use a Seiko chromatic tuner SAT 501, but the pins don't always co-operate. Most of the time they will "Pop" from one note to the next, very close but not exact, so I try to get everything as close as possible, all on the same side of the correct note. I talked to a different tuner and he told me that was one of the problems with trying to tune a piano, you can't always get it exactly right. Tuning a piano isn't difficult but it takes time to do.
     
    redintheface likes this.
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Age:
    69
    3,304
    4,122
    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    Then one's thinking would be incorrect. Speed of sound is faster in warmer air, slower in cooler air. Velocity of sound = Frequency x Wavelength. In warm air the velocity is faster, wavelength is basically the same (sure, some expansion but minimal), therefore frequency is higher.
     
    J. Jericho likes this.
  7. redintheface

    redintheface Piano User

    277
    231
    Nov 8, 2010
    Bath, UK
    Try tuning a harp. Because they are (usually) made from wood, they bow slightly under the tension of the strings, so as you tune (up in pitch) from one end to the other, the tension increases, puts more strain on the frame, and bows it, causing the first strings you tuned to go flat.

    I had a girlfriend once who played the harp and would have to re-tune the entire harp in the interval of any given concert.
     
    J. Jericho likes this.
  8. breakup

    breakup Forte User

    1,084
    581
    Jun 19, 2015
    Central Pa.
    I met a woman with a harp that her father made for her, but he used piano tuners on the strings. He also made one for the granddaughter but used regular harp tuners on it. I don't remember her saying anything about having to re-tune the instrument after the first time?
     
  9. Bflatman

    Bflatman Forte User

    1,716
    1,864
    Nov 27, 2008
    Manchester, England
    I dont know if I can add anything relevant but my view is - what do we want to achieve when we tune our instrument.

    We all want to play in tune with each other. Most instruments can be tuned at or during each performance of course but some cannot.We cannot ask a pianist to retune their instrument, and an organist or glockenspielist cannot retune to us so we must tune to them or discordant notes will appear.

    It matters little I think that I play in precise tune according to my tuner if everyone else is playing slightly flat or playing slightly sharp because the organist or pianist that they all have tuned to is slightly out of tune themselves.

    We are a team and if one member of that team is forced to play out of tune by their instrument and we refuse to tune to them when we easily could then we are not team players. It is the performance that matters not individuals and their desires for perfection.

    When I was playing in a brass band one guy had a tuner fetish and was forever checking his tuner and then demanding that we all throughout the night retune to his instrument. I found that to be tiresome and pointless.

    It has to be said and already has been alluded to, how do you know that your tuner is calibrated correctly, there is a case here for checking it is working correctly as a first step.

    I have found that when a musician wishes to criticise another musician and cannot find anything to hang their hat on, they often declare the other musician to be flat. I believe this to be a a jealousy, enviousness and lack of respect issue, although it could be well meaning.

    When there has been any question raised in this regard with myself I have upon checking with a tuner discovered myself to be correctly in tune as you have. But that is meaningless because perception of correct tuning is usually relative to others in the ensemble.

    Have your tuner checked but adjust your tuning to others in the ensemble as and when requested to.

    The amateur plays to show the audience the best of his abilities, the professional plays to show the audience the best of the abilities of all players in the ensemble together.
     
    barliman2001 and curlydoc like this.

Share This Page