decline of cornet soloists

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by _TrumpeT_, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. _TrumpeT_

    _TrumpeT_ Piano User

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    What were the main causes of this? It startled me from time to time when someone told me that cornets almost replaced trumpets in orchestra and trumpeters had to comprmomise by adding valves and making their trumpets more conical. At one time great "cornetists" played in major orchestras such as Herbert Clarke. Sure, lots of great trumpeters made great cornet recordings (eg Carnaval) but I haven't heard of any great cornet soloist who specialises in playing those old tunes back in in the days.
     
  2. 40cal

    40cal Forte User

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    I really don't have the history knowledge to answer you question. I can relate a story of when I was an undergrad my trumpet instructor told me I was playing too many cornet solos vs "legit" literature. Back then I loved to play those solos and still do. Needless to say, when I "forgot" to include him in the programming of my JR recital, he got the hint that I didn't care for his opinion too much.
     
  3. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Forte User

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    There are still a great number of cornet soloists - just check out the brass band world (Roger Webster etc).

    As for why the major soloists started using trumpets I would guess that the improvements in trumpet design played a huge part in this. When cornets first appeared on the scene they were valved and ready to play whilst the trumpets were still in a state of transition from their natural state.
     
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    The cornet is the banjo of the brass world.
     
  5. _TrumpeT_

    _TrumpeT_ Piano User

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    Sorry trumpetmike, but I was talking about the situation in America but I might be wrong about that as well. I'm aware of the strong tradition in the UK. I'm really a fan of David Daw's tone. I really should get his CDs.
     
  6. BudBix

    BudBix Pianissimo User

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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2006
  7. ecarroll

    ecarroll Artist in Residence Staff Member

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    _TT_,

    TrumpetMike caught you...we need to all remember that this is an international site. The cornet soloist is still flourishing indeed in the UK!

    I'm hardly a historian and the following is filled with holes but mercifully brief (please excuse my randomness).

    Consider the changes in musical society over the past 150 years. Many homes not only had a piano in the parlor but also were owned by people who put in the countless hours needed to play them, and play them well. Withought active music making there would be no music in everyday life (shocking, I'm sure, to our recent iPod babies). News of the latest operas from Europe could be found in the larger American newspapers but the only way to hear the latest from Milano or Vienna was via transcription, usually performed by touring wind bands (called "Italian Bands" since they were similar in instrumentation to bandas.

    The cornet was a relatively new instrument at the turn of the 20th century. Virtuoso players such as Kryl, Clarke, Levy, and Chambers emerged, but what to play? Nothing had been composed for their new toy, afterall. Most turned to transcribing popular and art music, adding their own astonishing flourishes and variations. Music was heard outdoors, in the park, and in far more intimate concert settings than in Orchestra Hall. It was music for the people, not for the connoisseur.

    . . . then King Oliver emerged from New Orleans. A whole new style of American art music was born and we never looked back.

    On a related note, check out this old thread (one of the first) on my forum:
    http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb//showthread.php?t=24591

    Best, and I look forward to other comments.
    EC
     
  8. _TrumpeT_

    _TrumpeT_ Piano User

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    Well if I've been caught, I haven't been caught by surprise - I was expecting such an answer from trumpetmike. I'm well aware that places outside USA might maintain strong brass band traditions - there is at least one acclaimed soloist here in Auckland (in New Zealand) as well.


    Has there been a gradual 'intrusion' of cornetists into orchestras? Also, the tonal concept may have changed over time. I've read that Arban initially used a deeper mouthpiece then changed to a shallower one giving more brilliant sound. As some people say trumpets became more like cornets and cornets became more like trumpets. There is a definite difference between the tonal concepts of Herbert Clarke and James Burke isn't there? (I can only tell from the recordings - which admittedly, might not reflect what they really sounded like)
     
  9. ecarroll

    ecarroll Artist in Residence Staff Member

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    _TT_

    Jimmy Burke was a real, old-school, cornetist and I agree that cornets became more like trumpets for a bit (thinking of the various "long bell" models, and that some trumpets have become more like cornets (especially the high trumpets. Schilke once commented to me that his E2L was really a cornet).

    Off topic, do you know a Kiwi trumpeter named Bede Williams? He was at CalArts last spring on exchange from the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama and a real pleasure to work with. Bede turned me on to the trumpet & MAX/MSP pieces of Michael Clarke.

    Best,
    EC
     
  10. _TrumpeT_

    _TrumpeT_ Piano User

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    No, sorry, I don't know him. I really don't know that many people personally.
     

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