Different Brands of Horns Question.

Discussion in 'Horns' started by vlstpt, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. vlstpt

    vlstpt New Friend

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    I know Benge horns have a bright sound, Bach has a mellow (dark) sound. Please let me know what brands are bright and what brands are dark and what determines the sound, is it the size bell ?? ,what the bell consists of, like a copper bell etc.. Thanks for your imput. :-?
     
  2. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    It's all about configurations really. You can get a Bach that sounds bright, and you can get one that sounds dark, it all depends on the setup of bore size, bell number, bell weight, bell material, leapipe, tuning slide configuration (reversed, standard) tuning slide shape (squared, semi round, single radius round) etc. On top of all of that, the mouthpiece that you stick into the leadpipe is going to have a big effect on it as well, not to mention your "normal" timbre as a player. The darkest horn I ever played was a lacquered Bach Vinda Bona with this massive copper bell that started to open up wide at the tuning crook. One of the brightest horns I ever played was a lightweight Bach with a 72 Bell, silver plated.

    The same goes for virtually any make or model of trumpet that comes in different configurations.
     
  3. vlstpt

    vlstpt New Friend

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    Thank you for your help folks, I really appreciate it. :-)
     
  4. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Sorry, I know my answer was pretty generalized, but it truly is a combination of a lot of things.

    As for the bell and it's affect on the sound, that definitely plays a big part.

    The Bach 37 bell is a versatile bell that can be both dark and bright, depending on how you push it.

    One of the smoothest, fastest responding dark horns I have ever played on was a Conn Vintage One with a copper or red brass bell. I'm not sure of the shape in relation to the Bach 37.

    Anyone else have anything regarding this subject?
     
  5. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    The kind of brass/metal/material/plating used will affect the sound.

    Kanstuls are generally built to have a heavier, darker sound. Schilkes are built to sound brighter, more resonant.

    BTW, has anyone else noticed theres a lot more weight on the 3rd valve slides on Kanstuls than on any other horn?

    The size of the bell will affect the sound, although I have never been quite clear on it. Doesn't a larger bell make the sound ringier?

    Bore size makes a sound larger, but it takes a lot more air to fill the horn, or else the sound will be diffuse.

    Van
     
  6. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    Nickel silver is currently my favorite metal. REAL mellow sounding, almost gold-like. Gives you a real intimate sound (and who doesn't love getting all sexied-up with your trumpet at times? :lol: ). Works good with lacquer, as I found lacquer wont kill the tone with nickel silver.

    Red brass also gives you a warmer sound, but its nowhere near as noticeable as I like. I imagine gold plating over red brass would make some difference.

    Copper is the darkest of the dark. I'm not really well-acquainted with copper, so I'll step down and give someone else the podium on this topic.

    Yellow brass gives players better control, but doesnt make for a darker sound. Kind of a middle of the road. Again, I'm not VERY knowledgeable on yellow brass (Though I SHOULD)...

    Sterling silver, good gravy, sterling silver. If you are a naturally bright player, for the sake of your audience's ears, stay away from this...

    Then there was beryllium. Not something for a chamber group. I would love to hear from someone who played a beryllium bell horn.

    PLATING

    Gold is the warmest, and most expensive of the platings. If you plate gold, plate 24k, for the best effect. 14K is mostly copper, and your killing the point of even getting gold then.

    Silver is known for brightening the sound. I think silver looks best when paired with gold, personally.

    Lacquer is kinda the weird one. Some people love it, some hate it. Some thinks it darkens, and makes the sound fuller. Others think it kills the sound. Try a few lacquer horns before you buy.

    Nickel is a weird one, not normally found on trumpets. It gives the sound a much ringier tone, and brightens as well. Another thing, is I've found nickel reacts to my hands much quicker than other platings. I will say thats a weird thing with me, nickel is supposed to be better about not reacting than the other platings!!

    COPPER plating? Yes, it exists. I don't know ANYTHING about it, though.

    Double Silver plating? Yes, it exists. Darkens the sound considerably, and adds weight to the sound, though it will still have a silverish ring to it.

    Shotblast lacquer? New one on me. Glass in lacquer? Sounds dangerous, really (Pictures shards of broken glass sticking out of a horn). In all seriousness, though. The shotblast is really neat looking, giving the horn an almost icy look. Its supposed to give weight to the sound, but with the glass particles, give the horn a unique ring of its own.


    I think I've covered most of the bases.

    Van
     
  7. vlstpt

    vlstpt New Friend

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    Thank you all for your help!!!!!
     
  8. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    Don't mention it. Shoot, thats why we're all here!! :D

    While I have this on my mind: What is with the Benge resno bell?

    Van
     
  9. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    "Resno-tempered" was Benge's pet "name" for their bells... supposedly there was something different about the way they tempered the bells. I suspect that most manufacturers have their own sequence of annealing, shaping (work hardening), re annealing, tempering, etc.
     
  10. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Haven't you read the article about how Resno Tempered bells came to be called that?

    Apparently one of the guys that worked for him was named Resno (last name I think - please, if I'm screwing this up, bail me out and correct me!) and he did some final work on the bell before it went on the trumpet and the whole "Resno-Tempered" thing was done up as a marketing ploy.

    Essentially, it means nothing. It is little more than a catch name stamped onto the bell.

    Again, I may have screwed that up in the retelling, but I think that it's pretty close.
     

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