Different Embouchure?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Xinn, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. Xinn

    Xinn New Friend

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    Oct 18, 2008
    Just recently as I was practicing, I wanted to test out a different embouchure just to see what kind of notes would come out..

    I tried the one where the lips must be rolled in, and seconds later I was able to play a High C above the staff! As an intermediate level musician, I was only able to play up to an Eb just below the top of the staff with my default embouchure setup


    Only problem with this different embouchure is that the tone and flexibility was terrible and it was difficult to hit the lower register.

    So now I ask, is this an appropriate Embouchure? Should I stay with it?
     
  2. bagmangood

    bagmangood Forte User

    Embochures are funny, don't mess with them unless you have someone working with you
    My current teacher swears by curling the lip in (and I think I recall a recent post by someone on this forum about it).
    If you have anyone who knows you personally as a player (a professional), talk to them about it
     
  3. Xinn

    Xinn New Friend

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    Oct 18, 2008
    Thanks, l'll ask my band director about it

    Another thing to add, my lips are a bit big and Ive heard that people with bigger lips should curl their lips in, so Im thinking the embouchure MIGHT be better for me
     
  4. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 4, 2007
    Every player is born with a specific type of embouchure type that he should use, based on the teeth formation and jaw formation that he was born with.

    Go to
    An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System
    then scroll halfway down the very long Web page to the heading "Reinhardt's Embouchure Types".

    The photos and descriptions should help.

    Most people are born with some version of the Type III (Type 3) embouchure or some version of the Type IV (Type 4) embouchure that are shown on that Web page.

    Try the various mouthpiece placements and trumpet tilts to see which embouchure type works best for you:

    For example, try playing with 1/3 upper lip and 2/3 lower lip,
    then trying playing with 1/2 upper lip and 1/2 lower lip,
    then try playing with 2/3 upper lip and 1/3 lower lip.

    And with each mouthpiece placement you try, you also should try playing with the trumpet tilted very slightly downward,
    then try playing with the trumpet sicking straight out,
    then try playing with the trumpet tilted very slightly upward.

    If playing with more lower lip than upper lip, and with the trumpet tilted slightly upward, works best for you, then you are probably some version of Type 4 embouchure shown on that Web page.
    Your upper lip should *slightly* curl under your lower lip as you ascend to the high notes, so that the air exiting your embouchure goes up, "upstream".

    If playing with more upper lip than lower lip and with the trumpet tilted slightly downward works best for you, then you are probably some version of Type 3 embouchure shown on that Web page.
    Your lower lip should *slightly* curl under your upper lip as you ascend to the high notes, so that the air exiting your embouchure goes down, "downstream".

    A person doesn't choose an embouchure type.
    A person is born with an embouchure type, and he should find out what that embouchure type is so that he can play accordingly.
    Otherwise, he is like a person who is born left-handed who is forced to write right-handed.
    Except that a left-handed person can learn to write right-handed rather well, while a person who is forced to play with the wrong embouchure will eventually ruin himself to the point that he cannot play at all.

    - Morris
     
  5. MLanghardt

    MLanghardt New Friend

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    Apr 7, 2007
    Las Vegas, NV
    This question can't really be dealt with over the computer. I would talk to your director or even better find a private teacher to study with. Embouchures are tricky things and I find the less we worry about them and the more we practice, better things will come. Best of luck in all you do.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Curling your lips is like curling your toes - it's good for some stuff, but not a real solution.
    You need to keep the PRESSURE down. THAT is what lets your lips do what they need to do!
     
  7. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    By curling your lips you in effect squeezed out a high note. this is not how you do it. I say find a good trumpet teacher and listen and practice some every day. Thats the key. reading a book without a teacher can lead to all kinds of misunderstandings and a lot of frustration. we learn by doing not by thinking about it. there is no trick to playing high notes.

    Bob G
     
  8. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    If your describing it right it sounds like the "Roy Stevens" embouchure, if you can, find a private teacher who knows and uses this method talk and study with him.
     
  9. Piccolodixie

    Piccolodixie New Friend

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    Mar 24, 2008
    Geleen, The Netherlands
    Hello Xinn,
    I searched in the forum for any messages regarding experimenting with different embouchures and found your message.
    I am also experimenting with the embouchure for two weeks now, since I was triggered by a professional trumpet player who succesfully changed his embouchure after reading and exercizing the balanced embouchure by Jeff Smiley The Balanced Embouchure
    It's well written with good examples. It's quite a drastic change playing with lips rolled in and flexibility I expect to come with more exercizing and getting the real feel about it. But I am still interested in a bench mark of this method.
    Regards, JT
     
  10. soulfire

    soulfire New Friend

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    Oct 16, 2008
    NJ
    I'm one of those people obsessed with embouchure. For some reason I just love learning about them and trying them out. My own embouchure is kind of a hybrid between maggio and several others. Basically I just roll my lips out the higher I go. I have had great success with it, although I am somewhat inconsistent rangewise, usually I can sit on a D above Double C though. I've always prided myself on two things, range and control.

    As far as the rolling in goes, I've known several people to do that. I mean really pay attention to it and do it. They all have better range, I'm talking triples. But their control is AWFUL. I mean they have to pray that the note is right. Not everyone has this problem I'm sure, but everyone I know who uses that has the same problem.
     

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