Different horns - different mpc's. Why?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Churchman, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. drmctchr

    drmctchr Pianissimo User

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    Thanks.
     
  2. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    I am not too sure those instruments ( the Yammie 2335 and likely that Besson) are what I would call optimal resonant instruments. You can obviously change the sound somewhat with different mps and they will respond different. My experience is that they are somewhat one dimensional in sound. I would liken it to a single tone control on a radio that just adjust the treble. A resonant instrument on the other hand will change textures and the mp change will have a greater impact on the overall tone.
    IMHO
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  3. drmctchr

    drmctchr Pianissimo User

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    coolerdave,

    Thank you. Researching these things (horns, mpcs, etc) is like trying to buy a car by looking at pictures of Chevies, Fords and Audis without being able to drive them. And many people keep reinforcing the idea that it is the player - (not the instrument) - that is the most important factor. I'm sure that Allen Vizzutti could make my original old dented and duct-taped Holton sing like a bird. As I read the opinions of so many good and honest people who swear by a particular model (and thus pass over the differing strong recommendations of other talented players), I keep wondering what factors influence that. The obvious (to me) differences are in the unique human characteristics of that individual (facial bone structure, lip sizes and shapes, lung capacities, and on and on). I imagine it to be like passing by a number of people on a street and for some strange reason being attracted to one (or a few) while other people seem bland and uninteresting. What is the magic that makes people fall in love ... or prefer a particular horn?

    Related to this (the variable of the human player) is the variability of several horns of a particular model ... let's say ten Bach 37s lined up in a row ... or ten Kanstuls ... (or ten cheap Chinese horns). The physics of all ten should be quite close. Yet, I occasionally read that a person picks one out of the litter as "special" ... even if it is a cheaper horn. I am greatly interested in your comments that some instruments are more resonant. I can appreciate that because I similarly observe that when I sing in the shower. I can also observe that when I play my horn and point it toward different parts of the room I am in. I realize that those are characteristics of the room ... but I see a parallel concept in play. BTW, it is great playing the horn in the shower.

    Well, they don't sell Masseratis in my home town ... so I can't test one (or ten). "Availability" probably is a big factor for other "horn searchers" like me ... you have to choose from the Chevies and Fords that are available. For now I'll try out some different hubcaps (mpcs) and see how I like them. But before I leave to go back to Montana (in May) I would like to visit the Kanstul and Wild Thing factory. I'm wondering how they stack up as resonant models.
     
  4. DaTrump

    DaTrump Forte User

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    The Kanstul and Wild Thing are quite resonant.

    I'll probably get some beef for this, the whole "pick of the litter" thing affects Bach more than any other trumpet company I've seen. But after doing some research, weighing, asking, the thing that makes these Bach's special per se, is that they were flawed some way or another. A friend of mine has the second best Strad 37 I've EVER put my hands on, and that's a lot, I'm in Texas. What was wrong? The venturi! The venturi on it was HUGE compared to what it was supposed to be. Another good one, the mouthpiece receiver was too long so there was no gap, things like that make or break a horn.
     
  5. drmctchr

    drmctchr Pianissimo User

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    Thanks DaTrump,

    I gather that you are saying that no two instruments (even though supposedly the same model) are truly identical ... (even Bachs). Were these "flaws" aftermarket differences (e.g., the longer mpc receiver ?) ... or did they come from the factory that way? It is surprising to imagine that a factory assembly with inspection of quality control tolerances would allow that to happen. Still, human error is as human error does. In fact, I understand that many great discoveries come from errors that happen in spite of a predetermined format. Ain't diversity grand! Still unknown is what made YOU (DaTrump) unique for that instrument ... (rather than the instrument unique for you). Sigh ... life would be simpler if I still had my old 1937 Ford coupe with the flathead V-8. What a car! ... I was made for that car!

    I may not get to the Kanstul factory (I think it is Pasadena) ... I hate driving on these freeways surrounded by speed crazed drivers who cut in and out. I have heard that there is a trumpet builder in Portland, Oregon (don't know the name) ... and I sometimes go to Portland. I don't know, yet, where Bachs come from ... but I'm guessing it's on some Bach road in the Bachcountry. I'll drive back to Montana via Las Vegas and Salt Lake City ... maybe I can find some bigger music stores or a few pawn shops along the way. At this time in my life I want to find just one really good horn and have a monogomous relationship with it until death do us part. May the resonance be with you all.
     
  6. Churchman

    Churchman Mezzo Piano User

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    Thanks all - this is interesting and helpful. My cheap and nasty Chinese flugel (Venus) plays well out of my mouth, despite the manufacturing 'issues' that it has. So there is clearly something in the suck it and see philosophy. And this was with only the second mpc I tried (Kelly).

    The crescendo thing is an interesting idea - i shall have to try it out and see which way my horns go :shock:
     
  7. Bauerbear

    Bauerbear Mezzo Piano User

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    Long story short, trumpet players are head cases that frequently need to fiddle with things that work, LOL.ROFL
     
  8. DaTrump

    DaTrump Forte User

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    Quality control wasn't up to par, which is what created the errors. And make that shorter mouthpiece receiver, I always get those backwards, it has less gap than a normal Bach. Well essentially it's that they aren't built to the EXACT same specs, they are built to a certain tolerance, or margin of error. Bach, at a certain time, had quite a margin of error which means there were great horns, and some duds.
     
  9. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    Kanstul is in Anaheim... if you let us know your generally vacinity I am pretty sure we could recomend a local shop that carries some killer models to try out. Sidenote: My Bach 27 has a Bob Malone leadpipe but they also changed the bracing and removed one of the braces near the tuning slide. That actually made quite a change in the trumpets playing characteristics.
    The Horn Guys carry some fabulous horns as well. They have two locations
    Welcome to The Horn Guys
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  10. drmctchr

    drmctchr Pianissimo User

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    coolerdave,

    I am located for the next month in Indio (20 miles east of Palm Springs). I have visited the one music store near here in Palm Desert but they only had a couple older, sad looking, and overpriced trumpets (but including one Olds Mendez) ... and no flugels.

    Somewhere I read that the Wild Thing factory is the same place as the Kanstul. Do you know if this is true?

    Does anyone know what the trumpet company is that is in Portland, Oregon? Thanks to all for any advice.
     

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