different mouthpieces, constant embochure

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by crowmadic, May 17, 2008.

  1. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

    Oct 3, 2006
    I asked this question in the mouthpiece section, but a little differently here. I want to be able to go from Flugelhorn to Trumpet without feeling a change in my embouchure, and still achieve the tonel differences. I use a Conn 3C mouthpiece with my Bb trumpet, and a Marcinkewicz BSCFL with the Flugel (that's what it came with). Nice sound on the Flugel, but it takes too long to get my lip back for the trumpet at the same gig. What should I do?............... crow
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  2. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

    Apr 4, 2007
    That flugel mouthpiece is made for a flugel with a Couesnon taper.
    Does your flugel definitely have a Couesnon taper?

    According to
    Mouthpiece Express.com
    the newer Couesnon flugels use a Bach taper, so you would be able to use a Bach 3C flugel mouthpiece as can be ordered at
    I see in that earlier thread that someone said that the Bach flugel mouthpiece does not give a rich enough sound, though.

    A suggestion you might consider:
    The Kanstul Comparator at
    Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator
    shows that the Bach 3C is virtually identical to the Schilke 15B,
    although I do not know how the throats and backbores compare.
    If you switch to a Schilke 15B mouthpiece, you could use the Schilke 15F flugelhorn mouthpiece as described at
    Schilke - Mouthpieces
    then you would have trumpet and flugelhorn mouthpieces that have the same diameter and rim shape.
    I know that Schilke says the 15F is in American shank at that Web page, but Mouthpiece Express says that Schilke will also make those flugel mouthpieces with a Couesnon taper for an extra fee:

    "Schilke now makes several "stock" model flugelhorn mouthpieces in either Standard, Bach, or Couesnon shank taper (additional fees apply for Bach and Couesnon taper). For more information, please feel free to Contact us."
    Schilke : Mouthpiece Express

    In fact, since the Schilke 15B is so similar to the Bach 3C, and the Schilke 15F should feel the same diameter and rim shape as the Schilke 15B,
    you might be able to just keep on playing your Bach 3C and the Schilke 15F flugel mouthpiece might feel close enough in diameter and rim shape to the Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece that you won't be able to tell the difference.

    - Morris
  3. Tim McGinley

    Tim McGinley New Friend

    I know that many folks advocate playing on the same rim for everything but sometimes that simply is not an option. Between trumpet and flugel this can be acheived but let's say that you are switching from trumpet to trombone or euphonium...it just can't be done on the same rim. Realistically, if you want to be able to switch with efficiency, you have to practice switching.

    When I started doubling seriously I would do a practice session on Bb then take a lengthy break, then I would do a session on trombone or piccolo trumpet or what ever I was looking to double. Over time I would make the break in between the instrument switch a bit shorter. (realize that I would still incorporate the "rest as much as you play" mentality).

    After a month or so of doing this, I was able to switch from trumpet to flugel to trombone (in any order) back to back. It is something that I had to build up and frankly, something I lost when I stopped playing as much trombone....but it can be done.

    As long as you are not using excessive pressure, I would think that you could train yourself to make the switch efficiently. Of course, mouthpiece technology being what it is, it is also pretty simple to duplicate your rim.

    Just some food for thought.
  4. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

    Oct 3, 2006
    Thanks guys. I should have mentioned that it is an old Couesnon Flugelhorn. I have a Bach 3C for my trumpet, but I prefere the Conn 3C because it has a better feel for me (less bite on the inside rim). It's sounding like the best thing for me is to find a Flugelhorn mouthpiece with the same rim feel as my Conn 3C. I live in Florida, so maybe Warburton can do something for me?......... thanks, crow
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    because of the difference in depth, there will ALWAYS be a difference in the "feel" of your embouchure even with EXACTLY the same rim. I know of no way to get the same feeling. If you practice the change, it will not matter after a couple weeks anyway!
  6. Ed Kennedy

    Ed Kennedy Forte User

    Nov 18, 2006
    Try a Warburton 4 (FLM,FL, or FLX) med, deep and extra-deep. While you are at it, try a 4MC on your trumpet.

    A Curry 3FL would be great, I used one with my Couesnon.

    Check out their web sites.
  7. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

    Oct 3, 2006
    thanks to all.......crow

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